Anyone else 'dislike' Snow White?
Talk about an obnoxious, nosey, self-righteous, goody two shoes. Best thing about this game was when I thought she'd died at the end of the 1st episode. Throughout episode 1, I'd already summed her character up as irritating as hell.
I don't like the way as the game player you don't feel free or solo with this idiot always hanging on your ear telling you what to do and where to go. Seriously, I hated how they created it to suit this character who seems, no matter what you do, to get her way in the end anyway. It's like you have to appease her and become the lap dog and that part when she snaps "I'm not yours to lose" - she should get over herself.
Narissa is an excellent more likeable crime partner, if the wolf character Bigby really needs to have one and I think they're way more suited as a couple. Snow White is just a control freak with annoying mood swings. I loved the part where you could take Colin's side over hers. There was too many choices given of "let Snow decide" or "Snow calls the shots". In one part of Episode 2 I opted for the choice that has Bigby tell the annoying character to stay put while he goes off to tell Holly her sister was dead... and what happens? Snow White just shows up anyway, like glamour magic, like poof and there she is with that annoying face and voice. Can't get an episode's peace without her all up in Bigby's grill. GGGRRRRRRRR!! Seriously, most annoying character ever in a game. More annoying than Bonnie from the Walking Dead.
Holly, Narissa and Beauty were great female characters in this story. I find it insane to make Snow White's character the lead. I just wished that had have been her head as we were lead to believe at the end of Episode 1.
People seem to react this way every time a very major female character doesn't agree with them and act as their sympathetic servant.
But I'll bite.
Why, pray tell, is it detestable that Snow, who is Bigby's BOSS from the end of episode 2 onwards, tells him what he should do?
Bigby's job is not to take the law into his own hands or to make the law. It is to enforce the laws made by Snow and King Cole.
That's not really true. Holly tells Bigby to F-off so many times and there's times Beauty pleads with Bigby on what to do. They're female characters and they never bothered me. So, it's not because the character is female at all. Don't get this wrong. It's because her character is hypocritical and annoying and is set up in a way that you have to constantly assure and appease throughout the game so you don't feel Bigby's character is given much of a choice anyway. Defeats the purpose of choosing anything. Not to mention it repeats itself constantly with choices like, "Are you okay, Snow?" "Are you alright?" "Don't worry Snow." It's like, what the hell? Is she a child? Why the overkill on the reassurances all the time? And when Bigby is nice, she snaps "I don't need you to stick up for me, I fight my own battles" and "I'm not yours to lose" etc. Seriously, if someone behaved that moody in reality (as some do), male or female, you'd tend to avoid them like the plague. These are valid reasons why this character bugged me.
Snow is the boss, what do you expect?
Wasn't Crane the boss to begin with? Bluebeard said, Snow is just a self appointed secretary. lol
Her character came across egotistical. Anyway, just an annoying character. I suppose it shows how well written and powerful a character TELLTALE made with Snow if it causes such a positive or negative reaction in gamers.
Thats not true. From the letters on Crane's desk, you saw that he literally did no work. Snow has been running Fabletown unofficially the whole time. Crane was the boss in name only.
Well, I agree. Snow first stroke me as one of a kind character that wants to turn things around. But she's just the same as Crane, But in a different way. Doing things by the book hurts the community in so much ways.
Don't be so harsh on Snow. She is a great character who's beautiful and smart. She may have been unappreciative towards Bigby and power tripped at times, but that's only because of the hurt she's received in the past and Crane's perverted interest in her. Like Bigby said in EP4, "Snow will come around. She's just...The Crane thing hit her hard and she doesn't really know who her friends are right now." She's just someone you got to be patient and reassuring with. And with the smile she gave Bigby in EP4, that was quite reassuring enough for me.
I hated her in Episode 3. Telling me to burn Greenleaf's tree, hell no. Like everyone said, she wasn't doing it for the good of Fabletown, she was doing it so no one else has fantasies of fucking her. She seemed selfish at that point.
Because she criticizes him for doing what's NECESSARY to survive a fight. She complains when he turns into a wolf in order to protect her, when he kills Dum in self-defense, and demands that he promise to bring in a suspect alive - a suspect who had not shown a willingness to be apprehended without violence.
And, yes, she's self-righteous in the game. She demands that AG's tree be burned without due process, then wants to rant and rave about due process for the Crooked Man.
And, oh yeah, she's a ****ing politician who thinks it's her business to actively participate in a murder investigation in place of the sheriff with superhuman sensory perception. And that's even BEFORE she's Bigby's boss. She's a glorified secretary in the beginning of the game who thinks it's her job to interfere with Bigby's investigation from the very beginning. Every freaking thing she shared with Crane was an interference in Bigby's investigation.
Even when she was Bigby's boss, it's not her business to tell him how to conduct his investigation. Law enforcement should have some measure of independence from their elected masters, and should only be removed for cause, not directly told how to do their jobs.
Well, the personal concern for her is justified. She has a freaking stalker who steals pictures from her home and gets off on having prostitutes glamour themselves as her. And she thought maybe she was the reason that Lily was dead. Oh, and Bigby's in love with her, so naturally he's concerned (but, I'll just say that in the comics she's not so insufferable even when she's being nasty and Bigby doesn't handle her with kid gloves even when she thinks her sister has been murdered).
No, I like her. I was a bit mad at her since she seemed a tad power hungry at some point. But in episode 4 after talking to Nerissa and I told her that she wouldn't know or something along those lines, and she had her little speech thing, and I felt pretty terrible for her.
And as a straight female myself it's got nothing to do with her just being a female.
Well she kinda actually did work. Crane did none. :P
The only thing she was really wrong about was burning the tree. In every other way, she is just trying to do her job.
She was wrong to update Crane on the investigation if Bigby told her not to - that's improper interference with an investigation. She was wrong to inform Bluebeard of anything, and Bigby would NOT have tolerated his interference in the investigation (just read the first story arc in the comics and find out what happens when Bluebeard tries to get in Bigby's way in the middle of an investigation). She was wrong to criticize Bigby for transforming to werewolf form in a dark alley when it was necessary to survive. And she was wrong to criticize Bigby for killing Dum when Bigby needed to effective incapacitate him while there were two other armed criminals behind him (just replay the funeral scene to see what happens when you don't effectively incapacitate one of the Tweedles). And she was wrong to demand that Bigby promise to bring anyone back alive, when Bigby has to be able to make immediate judgments about how best to protect himself and Fabletown from imminent threats.
And it's also just sort of frustrating because it's kind of inconsistent with the way she acts in the comics. She was just way too uncertain of herself, and she's been intimately involved with establishing and running Fabletown for centuries. Crane was deputy mayor for 150 years before all this went down.
Well, and because people were getting hurt because of her glamours. Plus she was willingly working for the Crooked Man.
So basically you're saying it would be better for her to be corrupt ?
What is so wrong with doing things fair and morally correct? She wants the citizens of Fabletown to be assured that they can can trust their government and leadership.
Ive read the comics, all except two of the latest ones and I disagree that she's wrong to criticize Bigby. She has his image with the townspeople to consider. He's the sheriff but if everyone is afraid of him, he cant do his job. Also, she is his boss. She gives the orders and the fact that he disregards them makes her look ineffective. She and Bigby are effectively running Fabletown on their own and she's under a lot of pressure. This is the first time that she is actively calling the shots without any interference. I dont see the problem with her wanting to establish order right away and going by the book.
Snow was right about burning the tree though, but her timing was bad. Snow's job does require fairness, but her past does tend to get the better of her. No one agrees with Greenleaf's judgments, and even if you burn her tree she supports you slightly if the Crooked Man stands trial.
Nosey? It's her job to be nosey. She's Bigby's boss.
As for her being self-righteous, so what? Is it actually a bad thing for her to have high morals? Maybe you want to be an out of control animal doing whatever it takes to solve your problems, but you can't honestly blame Snow for having issue with your methods.
Based on what? She was almost nothing but agreeable and optimistic in the first episode. I think the only time she gets angry with you in the first episode is if you beat on Toad. Again, can't really blame her for that.
She's your boss.
And she never tries to strong arm or twist you into going anywhere you don't want to. Basically she just doesn't want you to abuse your powers and kill other Fables/ beat on innocent ones.
Specific examples? Again, she really only doesn't want you to go around killing people or hurting innocent Fables.
If you knew anything about her past, you would understand why she is so defensive. She is hesitant to let people get too close to her (figuratively) because of her getting hurt in the past. She was also a little freaked out by Lilly's glamour at the time.
Because she's sweet and doesn't call you out on anything?
God forbid she would want you to not go around killing people, right?
I could go on and on. It really just sounds like you can't tolerate people who tell you what to do or disagree with your actions. Snow is a strong and independent female character who realllly wants things to change around Fabletown. She says that over and over again throughout the series. She wants things to be done by the book. She wants things to be morally sound. She wants Fabltown to be able to look up to their government again. How can she do that if the Bigby is running around doing whatever the hell he feels like?
For all the right reasons.
I don't understand the egotistical part at all. Do you find her egotistical simply because she doesn't always 100% back up your actions?
No. I've said, Dozens of times, That crossing the line doesn't mean corruption. Rules are made to be broken, If you really want to change things around, Help the poor, The people who can't get glamour and fix the farm and so on. THAT'S called a change. But instead, She wanted to burn Greenleaf's tree, She sent Toad to the farm despite having the money, And so on.
Verdict: Crossing a few lines to get things done isn't bad. And It'd actually make the community respect you. That you're willing to do whatever necessary to ensure their comfort.
Not to mention restricting and never appreciating my work. I'd rather date Faith to be honest. :P
I think she sent Toad to the farm because he still didnt have a glamour, in spite of the money. I think Toad is being stubborn and cant be trusted. The only one who is really suffering there is little TJ.
Giving poor Fables free glamours sounds nice and all, but it wouldn't actually work. If even a small group of Fables got free glamours, everyone else would want theirs free as well. The government can't show favoritism like that. It wouldn't be fair. The witches also refuse to make glamours for free anyway (as is said in the Comics).
She wanted to burn Greenleaf's tree because it was a potential threat to the community.. and had already caused problems. It was being used to help the Crooked Man's operations.
She sent Toad to the farm because he had broken the rules. We don't really know if the move is permanent or not, but it is what it is. He couldn't be trusted to keep himself glamoured, and was a liability to the community.
The entire community would not respect the government for showing favoritism to certain individuals or groups. It doesn't work that way.
Greenleaf didn't really have anywhere else to turn, but I see what you mean.
This sounds like the Skyler White syndrome from Breaking Bad. Basically, people hate the main female character for getting in the male main character's way, whether or not they're right.
Agreed, though I disliked Skyler White for other reasons
Not favoritism, This will be strictly between the government and the poor fables. Until you can land them better jobs and better incomes.
Greenleaf was providing cheap glamours to poor fables as the Crooked man already mentioned. It's there because of the government's corruption. Taking it out would have been the wrong call. Proving that the government don't give a shit.
Again, Fix the bloody-rules, Make everyone equal, And then talk about following the rules.
Again, Not favoritism, But understanding, Being a tolerant leader. I've worked very hard to get everyone to be pleased at me. Beauty and Beast were, Greenleaf was, Snow was pleased that I got The Crooked Man a trial. However, Some Blood-thirsty fables such as Gren weren't pleased, But I've made it clear that the community matters, I even said that The Crooked Man's fate should be decided by voting. Fables now respect and see that I've changed from being the big, Bad wolf. That's just a live example of how to turn things around.
Bigby can't force Snow to do anything. If she felt like the leadership should be notified, she was totally in her own rights to do that.
That much I agree with.
I've pondered this one for awhile, but I've come to the conclusion that Snow was right. Bigby clearly had the upper hand in that fight. He was throwing the Tweedles around like rag-dolls. He could have knocked Dum unconscious or thrown him across the street like he did to Dee. Purposely killing him was unnecessary.
Why? She wanted to make sure the community knew they had dealt with the problem the right way. She wanted the citizens of Fabletown to feel reassured about their government.
I think it would be different if Bigby ended up having no choice but to kill the CM, but it never went that far. I think if Bigby ended up in a situation where he didn't have much of a choice other than to put the CM down, Snow would be more understanding, though probably still disappointed.
She could have asked to live on the 13th floor of the Woodlands. "I don't play well with others" did you hear that line from Greenleaf?
There were things I didn't appreciate about Snow, sure, but I didn't quite hate her. The worst thing she did in my playthrough was done in the witch's house. Since I had the option to control that situation, it prevented me from feeling full-blown hate towards her. As the story developed, I realized that Snow is a "Lawful Good." She's all about upholding the law as long as it results in what she considers a good outcome. I saw her side of things on most issues, because I consider myself to be a good person. Others might disagree. I'd say I'm more of a "Neutral Good." Ultimately, I want to reduce the suffering of myself and those around me whenever possible, and that's how I played Bigby. Laws are supposed to work toward that end, but oftentimes don't. The Crooked Man was "Chaotic Neutral," so I found him pretty detestable overall, but since I didn't consider him evil, I didn't have a problem following Snow's instructions. In the end, I could relate to Snow, but her way of handling things is very different from how I would choose to do so. It's not worth hating her for it though, so I guess the answer is no, I didn't hate her by the end. She's just someone in a very difficult position doing the best she can.
Yes, that is absolutely favoritism. It's also dishonest. You're doing favors for a group of people behind closed doors while leaving everyone else out in the dark. If the rest of the community found out about it, they would be outraged. It's completely unfair. The government can't just bend their own rules whenever they feel like it. How would you expect anyone to be able to trust them if they did?
Yes, she was providing cheap glamours to poor fables, but she was also helping to regulate the Crooked Man's business. Why else do you think he gave her the tree? Just to be charitable? No, he did it because he was using her. Greenleaf also knew she was hurting other Fables at the same time, but she didn't care.
What do you mean equal? Everyone is of equal status in the Fabletown community (aside from the leadership, obviously). If you're simply talking about wealth, you're not really being realistic. They can't just hand out free money or take it away from others.
There's a difference between being a tolerant leader and doing whatever you feel like. The things you want to do defeat the entire purpose of having rules and government.
Because they'd understand my motives. As Toad did. As I said, Crossing a few lines isn't bad. For example, The By the book behavior of the Jack Deal would be to refuse the deal and arrest him. But that'd result into an utter failure, So there's a need to cross the line. The Mass Effect universe has an elite group called "Spectres", They're some very well-picked skilled individuals that operate without any law restrictions. There has to be some over the line behaviors in order to please the community.
She was working for the Crooked man because the government doesn't give a damn about the poor. And then Snow wants them to suffer. Whether they have the money or not should be the issue, If You have the money, Then you warn the un-glamored fable that if they don't get the glamor within three days, They'll be sent to the farm. If they are incapable, See if the budget allows you to give them money to get glamor and give them the same 3 days warning. That's being tolerant, That's not doing whatever you want, That's not being Crane. That's trying to equalize the wealth of the fables. Bluebeard is one of the fables that came through the backdoor and you can't accuse him of anything because his wealth is protecting him. That's an unfair society. In order to make it fair, You have to cross the line, You have to be open, You have to be tolerant, You have to stress yourself for the sake of the community.
I'm not actually the mayor, But since Snow doesn't really care, I tried to look out for people, To make a difference.
A master manipulator? How would you be able to trust her?
That's what I like most about her. Maybe because I can be that manipulative If my life was at stake as well. She is very smart, Very resourceful, And she actually appreciates my work. That's what draws me to her. And that's another reason to root for the Faith theory.
You still haven't mentioned the key question. How would you be able to trust her.
Let me answer your question, With a question. Why can't I trust her?