So, everything rumoured previously was true. Thanks, press showing attendees.
I thought the shot of Patrick Troughton running was quite well done, but the other B&W or poor-quality archive clips were handled badly. Where's Babelcolour when you need him?
Well the episode was confusing...
John Hurt is a forgotten Timelord from a regeneration that was never shown...
I guess that he is the 9th Timelord that didn't earn the title of the Doctor...
I thought
Richard E.Grant was the real Ninth Doctor. Scream of the Shalka and all that. So we now have three nines? Plus Mr. Bean.
No one being able to lie or refuse to answer? all that happened was he was strong armed into answering and failed to
.
Wasn't that supposed to be at the fall of the eleventh? Maybe he'l return. But the eleventh has already fallen, if John Hurt is Doctor number 9. David Tennant is really David Elevent.
So you wanted to show the version of the Doctor who committed countless war crimes and was ravaged by warmongering ecstasy during the 'so-often-referenced' Time war? Hey, guess what?
Paul Mcgann is still around!
And from what I've gathered, extremely anxious to appear in the new series. It's just baffling that they're trying to shoe-horn a pseudo Doctor in when there's already a better option standing around that won't fuck up years of story telling.
Yes, bit of a rant that I'll probably regret later on, but I just finished watching it and needed a few things of my chest.
My father (who sat reading the paper for the first half of this while making very loud noises as he turned the pages) said this episode was, and I quote, "45 minutes of my life I'll never get back".
I'm inclined to agree.
What the hell happened to Doctor Who just being fun adventures in time and space? When did everything become so bloody obsessed with being grand and sweeping and epic and so sodding complicated?
Christ I miss the old days, back when this was my favourite show and I couldn't wait for each new episode. Now I have to force myself to watch it. I have to FORCE MYSELF to watch DOCTOR WHO. Jesus H Macy.
And since I had to go to like three different sites to really understand what in the hell was going on with the big reveal in this episode, here's what happened (as far as I can make out):
John Hurt is the actual 9th Doctor, following on from Paul McGann's 8th. But because of what he did to end the Time War - killing billions - he doesn't think Hurt (heh, appropriate) as being 'a Doctor', with Eccleston being a true 'Doctor' and thus earning the number 9 position. The big secret, therefore, is that Matt Smith is actually the twelfth incarnation of the Doctor.
Needless to say, this is insanely complicated and does nothing but confuse people. Why. Why would you do this. Why would you completely and utterly baffle your entire target audience - kids, need I remind you - with something so ludicrously complex yet entirely pointless in the grand scheme of things?
I just... ugh. I hate to admit it, but I miss RTD.
Honestly, I felt this was the best episode of this season. Then again, I tend to like the darker episodes and those have been in really short supply since Moffat took over. Even this one wasn't as dark as I was hoping, but I'll take what I can get. Also,
The Great Intelligence mentioned Valeyard and that made me smile. Moffat hasn't forgotten and maybe he'll do something with that later. That's my hope.
.
I think the reason that they're going with Hurt for the Doctor they're using for the Time War stuff is because the movie that McGann was in wasn't received particularly well, even though his Big Finish stuff has apparently been phenomenal. So it makes sort of sense that they don't want to bring back someone that most of the viewers either don't know or don't care about.
So it makes sort of sense that they don't want to bring back someone that most of the viewers either don't know or don't care about.
As opposed to a
lost regeneration
viewers don't know or don't care about? As you said, McGann has been doing extremely well with the audio books, and he recently got a new "official" make over; new outfit, new sonic screwdriver, etc.
Even if you're one of the fans who hated the movie, wouldn't this have been the perfect chance to let him redeem and expand himself in that role? Showing him in the show would've solidified him as a "proper" Doctor in the eyes of many.
I'm curious how this will turn out, but at the moment, I feel it was a missed opportunity.
I actually kinda liked the movie except for the Master, who was so over-the-top evil it was almost comical. But I'm saying I can understand why they would be wary of bringing back a lesser known Doctor who had bad press the last time he showed up.
In a more story-oriented view, I really liked their explanation for another Doctor being shoved in there. Having a Time War specific Doctor seems appropriate somehow given the trauma associated with the period. And it still leaves some room for McGann's Doctor to have been in the Time War, but doesn't have him be the one to pull the trigger. I, for one, couldn't really see that happening with his Doctor. It also makes sense that with the trouble he gets himself into, the Doctor would have been forced to regenerate at least once during a freakin' war. And not just at the end.
I dunno. I would have loved to have McGann come back, but as alternatives go, I can't say I'm overly upset about this one.
Why would you do this. Why would you completely and utterly baffle your entire target audience - kids, need I remind you - with something so ludicrously complex yet entirely pointless in the grand scheme of things?
Yes, we get it. Children are stupid and the only way they'll ever get smart is by talking down to them until they can vote. Simple plots are the healthiest food for a growing mind. It's like eating mental candy, all day every day. Sounds great!
Yes, we get it. Children are stupid and the only way they'll ever get smart is by talking down to them until they can vote. Simple plots are the healthiest food for a growing mind. It's like eating mental candy, all day every day. Sounds great!
Not what I meant at all and you know it.
There's treating kids like mini adults, and then there's treating kids like they're MENSA applicants.
Totally didn't read the end of the post for some reason, but Marsden... that argument makes absolutely no sense. To say that RTD wrote for kids is like saying that Micheal Crichton wrote for kids. I mean kids like both, but the plots that RTD was working with were definitely intended for a more mature audience. I mean, look at the body count in comparison to Moffats episodes! I mean, in an RTD episode it MEANT something if everyone lived. In a Moffat episode, that's a normal day because everyone lives every day.
I don't even understand what you mean about the episode being confusing. It was incredibly straightforward. Hurt's Doctor did something terrible--he isn't considered a "real" Doctor. End of story. That's not even remarkably complicated next to why there were suddenly a bazillion Masters or having two Doctors in different timelines, but one's made out of a hand, or everyone on earth saving the day with "good thoughts".
Honestly, this was the first episode since Moffat's taken over the show where I really felt like I was watching the Doctor Who that I fell in love with in the RTD era. It was dark, it had a weird plot twist, it changed up the game in a new and interesting way, the stars started going out... and I hope that they do more episodes in the same vein. I'm getting a little tired of the same old Monster of the Week... or should I say Monster of the Weak, because there weren't really any that felt like a real challenge for the Doctor.
I don't really think it was the actual ending of the Time War that did it, but the way he did it, and the way he acted through it. Perhaps he was more cruel than his previous and later incarnations, needlessly so. Remember, he called himself the Doctor, he promised to help out those in need.
Or, perhaps he never actually has been in the Time War. He never actually ended it himself. Or maybe he did, but fled, and that's what the Doctor would have never done, flee, run away from his responsibilities.
Or maybe I'm just talking out of my ass. I seriously need to work on my own novel.
Comments
There's always somebody letting the side down...
That in itself could cause another war!
Doctor... Who???
Even the Sun doesn't get things *that* wrong... Mind you, they prefer that John Pertwee, or maybe Peter Davidson....
Is this a game changing episode now?
Specific spoiler -
I thought the shot of Patrick Troughton running was quite well done, but the other B&W or poor-quality archive clips were handled badly. Where's Babelcolour when you need him?
I am so confused! Who the what happened?
So the Doctor's name is Please...
How do you put them in...
I thought
Paul Mcgann is still around!
And from what I've gathered, extremely anxious to appear in the new series. It's just baffling that they're trying to shoe-horn a pseudo Doctor in when there's already a better option standing around that won't fuck up years of story telling.
Yes, bit of a rant that I'll probably regret later on, but I just finished watching it and needed a few things of my chest.
I'm inclined to agree.
What the hell happened to Doctor Who just being fun adventures in time and space? When did everything become so bloody obsessed with being grand and sweeping and epic and so sodding complicated?
Christ I miss the old days, back when this was my favourite show and I couldn't wait for each new episode. Now I have to force myself to watch it. I have to FORCE MYSELF to watch DOCTOR WHO. Jesus H Macy.
And since I had to go to like three different sites to really understand what in the hell was going on with the big reveal in this episode, here's what happened (as far as I can make out):
I just... ugh. I hate to admit it, but I miss RTD.
I think the reason that they're going with Hurt for the Doctor they're using for the Time War stuff is because the movie that McGann was in wasn't received particularly well, even though his Big Finish stuff has apparently been phenomenal. So it makes sort of sense that they don't want to bring back someone that most of the viewers either don't know or don't care about.
Also this is one of my favorite episodes ever now.
As opposed to a
Even if you're one of the fans who hated the movie, wouldn't this have been the perfect chance to let him redeem and expand himself in that role? Showing him in the show would've solidified him as a "proper" Doctor in the eyes of many.
I'm curious how this will turn out, but at the moment, I feel it was a missed opportunity.
In a more story-oriented view, I really liked their explanation for another Doctor being shoved in there. Having a Time War specific Doctor seems appropriate somehow given the trauma associated with the period. And it still leaves some room for McGann's Doctor to have been in the Time War, but doesn't have him be the one to pull the trigger. I, for one, couldn't really see that happening with his Doctor. It also makes sense that with the trouble he gets himself into, the Doctor would have been forced to regenerate at least once during a freakin' war. And not just at the end.
I dunno. I would have loved to have McGann come back, but as alternatives go, I can't say I'm overly upset about this one.
There's treating kids like mini adults, and then there's treating kids like they're MENSA applicants.
I don't even understand what you mean about the episode being confusing. It was incredibly straightforward. Hurt's Doctor did something terrible--he isn't considered a "real" Doctor. End of story. That's not even remarkably complicated next to why there were suddenly a bazillion Masters or having two Doctors in different timelines, but one's made out of a hand, or everyone on earth saving the day with "good thoughts".
Honestly, this was the first episode since Moffat's taken over the show where I really felt like I was watching the Doctor Who that I fell in love with in the RTD era. It was dark, it had a weird plot twist, it changed up the game in a new and interesting way, the stars started going out... and I hope that they do more episodes in the same vein. I'm getting a little tired of the same old Monster of the Week... or should I say Monster of the Weak, because there weren't really any that felt like a real challenge for the Doctor.
Yh I said something to that effect earlier when someone asked if
I pretty much share Alcoremortis views on the ep and RTD vs Moffet style of Doctor Who.
I also stand by my belief that this is more then just the
At least, that's the angle I think it's going.
For soo long I've wanted to see
Or, perhaps he never actually has been in the Time War. He never actually ended it himself. Or maybe he did, but fled, and that's what the Doctor would have never done, flee, run away from his responsibilities.
Or maybe I'm just talking out of my ass. I seriously need to work on my own novel.