I only have one problem. Doug/Carley and their death. Now my reasons. It felt needless. I wasn't as if they died to evoke the feeling of panic that anyone can be killed any second because of the walkers and bandits, or because of something stupid I did, or because of something stupid they did. It felt, to me, like they died to save the developers time and make their job easier. It's not that they died. It's how they died. I was sad that Kat and Duck died but I loved that scene from an artistic point, it felt real. Doug/Carley could have died and I'd have been cool with it, if it hadn't felt like a cop out. It felt forced and out of place, especially with Carley, at least Doug died like a hero trying to save Ben.
Other than that I thought this episode was amazing.
"I wasn't as if they died to evoke the feeling of panic that anyone can be killed any second because of the walkers and bandits, or because of something stupid I did, or because of something stupid they did."
I know what you mean. I also had the impression that it felt a little rushed; that being said, the fact that you never know what's going to happen and that no one is really safe is what makes The walking dead the thriller it is. Personnaly, I liked Carley (and Doug too) and I couldn't believe what happened to her. I also think that Carley\Doug's fate served to illustrate the deep emotional and psychological turmoil that Lilly was going through since the end of episode 2. When she said "I have nothing left" you could really see how far gone she was. Amazing episode in my opinion !
I only have one problem. Doug/Carley and their death. Now my reasons. It felt needless. I wasn't as if they died to evoke the feeling of panic that anyone can be killed any second because of the walkers and bandits, or because of something stupid I did, or because of something stupid they did. It felt, to me, like they died to save the developers time and make their job easier. It's not that they died. It's how they died. I was sad that Kat and Duck died but I loved that scene from an artistic point, it felt real. Doug/Carley could have died and I'd have been cool with it, if it hadn't felt like a cop out. It felt forced and out of place, especially with Carley, at least Doug died like a hero trying to save Ben.
Other than that I thought this episode was amazing.
I came here to say exactly this. Introducing the Doug/Carley dilemma in the first episode seemed to suggest there would be a big fork in the story based on that choice (other people have been debating their reasons for saving one or the other for awhile now, which shows they were expecting it to matter, too). Instead, they were largely put aside for the second episode, then completely killed off early in the third. I was attached to Doug because he was the one person I really had a choice in saving, and it felt like he was killed just for the designer's convenience. Why present it as though our choices matter if the idea is just to keep us on the same linear story path with just an occasional change in character model or line of dialogue to make it seem different? As it is, it's like picking Mario or Luigi in the original Super Mario Brothers, a superficial change that doesn't actually alter gameplay in any significant way.
Other than that, I don't have much to complain about. The acting is good, the story has been gripping at times, and my wife and I have gotten a lot of enjoyment out of it. I just wish it didn't present itself as a game of meaningful choices, when it's really about telling a single story slightly differently.
"I wasn't as if they died to evoke the feeling of panic that anyone can be killed any second because of the walkers and bandits, or because of something stupid I did, or because of something stupid they did."
I know what you mean. I also had the impression that it felt a little rushed; that being said, the fact that you never know what's going to happen and that no one is really safe is what makes The walking dead the thriller it is. Personally, I liked Carley (and Doug too) and I couldn't believe what happened to her. I also think that Carley\Doug's fate served to illustrate the deep emotional and psychological turmoil that Lilly was going through since the end of episode 2. When she said "I have nothing left" you could really see how far gone she was. Amazing episode in my opinion !
I understand that it shows Lilly's lost it, but I think it could have been shown in another way too, or just having her kill someone, like your actions lead to her killing Ben or Carley/Doug. At least then it wouldn't feel like it was arbitrary.
The following isn't towards your comment Lucky.
At the end of the day this is a game, and I know they want to evoke the setting. But still as a game (as opposed to a comic) we, the players, should have a little say in-game over the outcome otherwise it loses something. As I've said I have no problem with folks dying. One of my favorite book series is a war series where several character's die all the time, part of what sets games apart from book and movies is that we should be able to stop that from time to time.
i HATED Episode 3. Although it was long, and content packed, i feel like all the killings were un-needed. One thing i found stupid was where Carly/Doug died. If lilly was freaking out, and suspected Ben (i talked her out of suspecting Carly) Would she NOT of killed Ben? Or me if i were to of said I did it? I then chose to bring Lilly along with us. Now, lets say this happened in real life. I'm sure people would of had a guard on her. And brought her outside, tie her hands to the train, or a tree, or something. The rest seemed ok, but one thing that bothered me, just because of the annoyance, was in the train, there is not a single wind effect. Their legs do not swing, their pants do not ripple, the old man's hair is not blown back, that bothered me... Alot...
And finally, why did lee hate Duck so much? Sure, he's stupid, and is better off dead, but i fed him, and was nice to him, but come Episode 3, Lee just hated him... No reason... just, hated him.
Now, for things i liked, i enjoyed the action, it was, in my opinion, just the right amount. If there was much more i would of felt over whelmed. I also enjoyed how long it was, as stated above, it was, for me, around 3 hours to beat, some of that time was looking up to see if i could of saved Carly... Although i hope lilly comes back at some point, at least, for those who saved her. But, in conclusion, i wish Ben was shot...
Dude, this game is about CHOICE. I have been nothing but kind to Duck since the beginning. I even gave him a high 5 just because he found the chalk. You CHOSE to be rude to Duck. Just like we have the choice to lie to Clementine or be honest, you can choose to be a dick or not. I chose not to tell the stupid idiot teenager that I was a killer, I CHOSE to tell Katja what happened in the freezer.
I left Lillie on the road to rot because she shot someone in cold blood based on nothing but her own grief fueled paranoia. I would have NEVER put her back in my car after that. Also she RUINED my budding romance. So she had to go.
Sounds like you hated the choices that you made. Play through again and try it.
also: Apparently I'm the only person who thinks that rash decisions like Lillie shooting Carly won't actually happen when untrained people get guns during an apocalypse, or people with itchy trigger fingers and god complex's start trying to run things. It's plausible.
There's not a whole lot to say I didn't say in my 1 and 2 reviews. I'm just really impressed with how Telltale manages to make you feel uncomfortable with your actions. There aren't a lot of games that allow you to kill children, and I won't lie, during the few games that do let you I usually take advantage of the opportunity as much as possible. I'll gladly waste a bullet every time I see a kid in Deus Ex, even though I leave every other friendly NPC alone. And most of my time in Scribblenauts was spent thinking up new ways to kill babies. But when you have to shoot Duck...I just didn't want to do it. I sort of just stared there at the screen for a minute, preparing to hate myself. So far every episode has been more heartbreaking than the one before it, so I'm expecting the finale to be roughly on par with the Holocaust.
Also, I find it interesting how it seems Telltale is trying to give us a new perspective on Kenny with each episode. In Episode 1 he seemed like an overall decent guy with a few flaws. In Episode 2 it seemed they just wanted us to hate him, and now you just want to give him a big hug and tell him it'll be OK. I'm curious of just how Kenny will turn out in the end. Mind you, the last time Telltale kept shifting how people feel about a character back and forth like this was Edna Strickland.
Anyway, flaws. I'm kind of upset Carley/Doug was killed so early, since so far saving them in Episode 1 has been the only truly consequential choice. I haven't tried doing a playthrough for Doug yet, so I don't know how different things are with him, but Carley had a pretty low-key role in Episode 2, then died at the start of 3. I know it'd be difficult to have two different characters at once like that in the long term, but still, it's a tease when only one choice has had a real consequence, and even that wasn't much. Then again, before Episode 2 came out I was expecting Carley/Doug to die there, so props for keeping it up an episode longer than expected, I guess.
Come to think of it, Telltale has been padding the body count quite a bit, even to the point of bringing in new characters just for it (Mark). I know that this is par for the course in the world of The Walking Dead, but when someone's dying in every scene death stops being dramatic and starts being routine (or maybe that's the point?).
To be honest, as much as I like him, I kind of hope Lee dies at the end. While Robert Kirkman's never had the balls to kill Rick, Telltale's got the chance to hit the player where it really hurts and make the whole thing a big shaggy dog story for their hero. Maybe even force you to choose between yourself or Clementine, guaranteeing you lose in the end either way. That's just me, though.
Also, I know it's been discussed to death already and everyone (me included) is sick of hearing about it, but I think I've got to address Telltale's poor communication skills. The episodic model, coupled with the approval process for consoles, makes delivering exact release dates tricky for Telltale (I call it Telltale Time. Like Valve Time, but not as bad since they just released Episode 3. ) I can understand that. I've been a Telltale fan a lot longer than most of the people here, and I know this sort of thing is typical. But other people won't be as forgiving as I am, and if Telltale's expecting to attract new fans, they've got to speak with them. If you can't prevent these release date issues from happening, you should at least make it clear to people that they're going to happen and why.
Anyway, overall, an amazing episode, worth the wait, looking forward to the next one. Also...
I definitely felt shock and drama all around episode 3. The decisions were more intense to make, even when it involved someone's life. It gets your heart going, man. Story continues to be excellent, and the game continues to be Telltale's most mature and strongest game they have ever made.
There aren't a lot of games that allow you to kill children, and I won't lie, during the few games that do let you I usually take advantage of the opportunity as much as possible. I'll gladly waste a bullet every time I see a kid in Deus Ex, even though I leave every other friendly NPC alone. And most of my time in Scribblenauts was spent thinking up new ways to kill babies. But when you have to shoot Duck...I just didn't want to do it. I sort of just stared there at the screen for a minute, preparing to hate myself.
That's an...interesting...position to take. I have played several games where killing children was an option, the original Fallout in particular comes to mind, since you could get the moniker of Child Killer if you kept it up. I have never relished the experience, myself. There's some novelty in "Oh, I can really kill anyone?", but it's usually without purpose. In this case, I had no remorse about shooting Duck, anymore than I had about shooting the bitten woman in the street. As I told Clementine, I put him out of his misery. Too much zombie mythos has taught me that infected people inevitably suffer, die, turn, and kill. I just wish the game would have allowed me to discuss it with Kat and Kenny sooner, to end it quick on the train and save Kat's life.
On the subject, I thought it was kind of odd they didn't have him speak another word after they show he's bitten. I suppose he was in shock, but maybe if you asked him if he wanted to turn into an undead, flesh-eating monster he might have voiced an opinion on the subject.
One fucked up episode. If I wasn't so fucking curious, I would have dropped the comic (during the prison chapters) and the game (right after I found Mark choppedichoped). I'm glad they didn't extend the shooting scene with Duck. Same goes to the comic, I didn't particularly mind that Glenn died, but the presentation of it with his burst open skull and still mumbling his wifes name...
No shit, game lives up to the comics, no doubt about that. And both let me feel like shit, the game more than the comics. Congratulations!
Also: I think killing of Doug/Carly was too soon, but just my opinion.
I have played a lot of games in my days, but i have to say that this one is the most emotional attached i get to the characters. When one of them dies, i feel sad, if it's someone i don't like i am glad at first, prolly adrenaline, then later on im like " wow i wish that didn't happen to them." What is your secret walking dead creators?
I don't know if it actually was longer, but it did seem that way to me as well. To some degree it was longer for me, but that was because I kept dying at the motel/camper scene where you had to shoot all of those walkers. The target thingy seemed a little wonky to me & it was hard to get a good, quick shot off.
Same with me.. It actually took me 4 hours to play this with all the deaths.
I didnt keep count but I bet near 40times
I spent more time looking for anything I may have missed before I realized to just shoot them. I think it was just harder. level 3. lol
But thats kinda the point, there you are.. what are ya gonna do? figure it out!
The Clem dream part was awsome. I thought "awww shit" then was relief even when cussing TT for making me see that!
I left lily behind.. she seemed to be losing it, Kenny and I killed her dad.. figured she needs to go away before she kills me.
I made sure I told Kenny what he wanted to hear, his best pal, and told him as his father he needs to take care of Duck. He's upset now, but still my friend til the boat!
Christa and whatshisname are okay. if anything walkerbait if needed.
As for Clem's walki talkie thing.. I remember Glenn driving off with he other one. So my assumption is, someone got it from Glenn and has talking to Clem.
But Glenn went to Atlanta, we're on our way to Savannah. so if Im right, who she's talking to wont matter.
But i guess TT could just say Terry St.John is really alive and somehow just happens to have a Walkie. Just happens to talk to Clem who mentions all that's happened any how he know's we're headed to Savannah.
Very satisfied
I'll have to try it again and keep the deaths to a minimum!
Oh, and teaching Clem to shoot.. everytime Lee set up a new bottle, I just cringed waiting for Clem to accidentaly shoot Lee in the back.
I think there's a chance Lee might die, bcus the last episode is called No Time Left, which could mean that Lee gets bit in "Around Every Corner" or someone in the group gets bit. But I had an idea that in season 2 we play as a new character that joins Lee's group and how we played him in season 1 will shape the kind of character he will act in season 2.
I know I never bother to read posts this long. Sorry, just had a lot to say.
This episode, good as the story may be, has terribly weakened my interest in this game. Any choice in this game will only produce a slightly different section of dialogue or cutscene. It seemed like siding with Lilly or Kenny might change the structure/makeup/fate of the group. Ditto with Carley or Doug. Two episodes later, it might as well not have happened at all. It doesn't matter what you do. The plot of the entire adventure won't stray far. I feel like I'm just editing a movie somebody else has already shot.
Maybe it's unrealistic for me to ask for a video game that has a phenomenally complex tree of possibilities. The amount of time and energy it takes to create something even this variable is enormous. It's just disappointing when I can pick up a "Choose Your Own Adventure" novel meant for eight year old's and get plot arcs that go in any direction. Probably to make The Walking Dead game I had in my head would take ten years to make and cost $1000 a unit. Although, I would seriously consider paying $1000 in advance if Telltale ever wants to make that game.
Also, it burns me up that I didn't get the option to kill Lilly. Screw comic book canon. She's leaving the group anyway. Let me shoot her in the head and then after we leave, show her miraculously survive. And the entirety of Lee's emotional reaction to Carley/Doug's death was one mean look at Lilly and one bad dream? What the hell kind of person is Lee? Is he good at repressing, or just a sociopath?
Yesterday a girl "he thinks about" kissed him, then got her brains blown out needlessly. Today, he sees his friend commit suicide. After that, he shoots a child in the face. What does he have to say? "What a crappy day. Oh well, let's put on a smile and clear the way for this train."
The one thing I'd change is how Lilly snapping takes place. If you side with Lilly over the past two games and the beginning of this one, her change of mental state seems a bit forced. I would have preferred to see Lilly portrayed as more unstable at the beginning of the episode.
Telltale better make episode 4 fucking worth it. It felt like Carly/Doug death was cheap and then Lilly just gets away. I thought i was making real choices. " Telling different stories with my friends" If they don't incorporate Lilly, Carly/Doug into episode 4, I'm going to fucking lose it with telltale. I want to make choices that actually changes how things go. Not just " oh this guy likes me but the other doesn't" and then the guy I go against has a grudge with me. This is just the same played out story with alternate scenes.
This episode is really bugging me. Killing off carley was a bigger kick in the balls than the me3 ending, but i think there is more to it. Why have all the "Carley will remember that" even if she is going to die no matter what, even the very last moment before she is shot, unless she never actually died. That or these were just to make you think nothing was going to happen to her. Duck and katjaa deaths were very well presented and loved the episode as a whole but still pissed that carley died, especially that we just found out that lee and her had something going on.
The effort put into the storytelling in this game is nothing short of amazing. Every episode is better than the last. Back at the start on the farm it felt like you had everything together but as the episodes roll on things get further and further out of control.
Man I can't WAIT for the last two episodes... I have never been this excited about a video-game before and it's not like I haven't played many!
The Carley/Doug deaths rendered their origin stories inconsequential. There didn't seem to be a good reason for them to be killed other than to streamline the story.
Other than that I thought it was another great installment of TWD. Great storytelling, atmosphere, and plenty of emotion. Carley and Katjaa deaths were shocking to say the least and Duck's was pure torture and sadness. I actually waited for him to stop breathing so as to supposedly not hurt him All we're left with is an unstable, shattered bunch. To top it off, Clementine's situation is very disconcerting.
TTG did say it was going to get worse from here, so I can't wait for the next episode.
Also, I'm beginning to suspect the only reason most people are overly upset about Carley is because they wanted to have a romantic relationship with her. That's just stupid.
This episode was so emotionally gripping and I must say well done telltale so intense!!
I've always sided with Kenny notated what and I felt so bad for him when his son was bitten and then his wife commited suicide I felt so bad for the guy !!!
Can't wait for the next episode and can't wait to find out who the guy on the radio is could it be Andrew Saint-John because who ever it is know lee and after all we don't know if he actually died and also everyone keeps on talking about chuck being Terry so could there be a reunion and more betrayal guess we will just have to find out !!!
I'm tired of everyone complaining about Carley/Doug's death and the supposed lack of choices in the game.
Carley/Doug were most likely close to Lee, with the former even hinting at a romance. Lilly had been strained since day one, and Larry's death only served to make her more paranoid. It's fitting that she would snap and try to take control of something, because she had nothing left, and kill someone. I tried to stay neutral throughout episode 2 and decided against killing Larry and thought I had a good grasp of what was right and wrong. I made decisions that, while may not have been the best for survival, helped me keep my humanity intact. I had allies, especially in Carley, who I shared a mutual trust and bond with. Episode 3 throws all of that for a loop and Carley/Doug's death as well as Chuck's words of wisdom served as a lesson that Lee has to do whatever it takes to protect the ones he loves. I found myself in episode 3 making more pragmatic and sometimes harsh decisions for the sake of survival. Carley's death pushed me over the edge and made me decide that whoever would try to fuck with me would get left behind.
Now, ask yourselves, what other game makes a player go through an emotional journey like that? For what purpose would being a God-like character who can control every situation and save everybody he wants towards a happy ending serve? I am kind of pissed at the TV show for keeping Shane and Daryl as long as they did just because the characters were popular. Just about everybody who died in season 2 were arguably the least popular characters. At the end of Episode 3 of the game, I was left with people I had bad blood with or just flat out didn't trust. The safety is gone. This is the zombie apocalypse.
Lee foreshadowed somewhat the events and themes of episode 3 when reflecting on Hershel's farm with Kenny at the pharmacy: "You didn't have a choice. You think you do when you look back on it, but in a moment? When things are really out of control? You don't have any choice."
Especially in episode 3, we'll find that a lot of the time, the story will be driven by the plot, and that means things will be out of your control. People will die, but that doesn't mean you should take a fatalist approach to life. What's important is what you do with the situations put in front of you and the time you have with the people you're with. You will grow as a person, and in this case, things will definitely resonate with Clementine. Just because someone dies doesn't mean that everything you did with them was for nothing. This game IS about choice, but not control. In the zombie apocalypse, not everything will be driven by characters, and not everything will be fair, and it shouldn't be. Carley/Doug's death was tragic, but it was not written for pure shock value. You have to react to what happened. How mad are you? You spent three episodes building a relationship with these people and now that they're gone, what will you do? Are you willing to abandon Lilly? What does this mean for your decision-making in the future? When you find out that Ben was responsible, what do you plan to do with him? That's what matters.
My (Lee's) relationship with Carley changed me. This was someone I spent three episodes building a trust with, and who was a constant ally through all my troubles and supported me. Her death enraged me, but I wasn't mad at the game. I was mad at Lilly, I eventually got mad at Ben, but I was also mad at myself for not doing what it took to keep my loved ones safe. Don't tell me my decision to save her in episode 1 didn't matter. She was an ally who was killed senselessly and I would from that point forward would make sure it wouldn't happen again. I decided I would be honest about my past with everyone in the group. I decided not to hide anything from Omid and Christa because I felt that would make Carley, Clementine, and even old Hershel proud. THAT'S my choice.
If you want to look at it from a technical perspective, there's no conceivable way for the story to accommodate EVERY SINGLE permutation players want. In a story that spans five episodes, things will get harder to stay coherent and Telltale is doing a commendable job with providing a compelling narrative at the same time as providing players with as much choice as they can. If players were given a free roam of the plot, the story would fall apart eventually. Take Skyrim, for example. For the most part, a player has near complete control of how they want to handle a quest, at the cost of a compelling narrative. Mass Effect also understands the need for a coherent plot and even though it gives players choice, certain things WILL happen. Just because certain outcomes are inevitable does NOT mean there is an illusion of choice. The Walking Dead has done a better job, in my opinion, in making choice matter than Mass Effect or Dragon Age. I've played several scenes over again dozens of times and the amount of difference your choices make is staggering. In no way was this created lazily, so give the writers a break.
You have a choice, and although it may not matter in the long run, it matters NOW.
Hey people, I'm new to the game and the forums. I just played all three episodes for the first time and loved the experience.
But this episode had one tiny thing that ruined it for me: The cut-Clem's-hair-quest. Seriously, "Her hair is a lot safer now"?! It's not like she's not wearing clothes that are equally "grabable"...
It would have been much better if she had come up with the idea herself, seeking for a piece of normality in the mess, going like: "My hair has grown so long, by now my mom would have taken me to the barber" or whatever. But some weird old guy recommending a hair cut because that's supposed to be safer? That was just ridiculous and annoying, killing all immersion.
Well this was the worst episode i think, because your choices didn't mattered at all. You can't save Carly/Doug:mad:, or Duck and Katja. Lilly not stay with the group no matter what, and Omad and Christa stays alive and will be angry at you whatever you do.:( Why did they take away the option to choose?
I'm tired of everyone complaining about Carley/Doug's death and the supposed lack of choices in the game.
Carley/Doug were most likely close to Lee, with the former even hinting at a romance. Lilly had been strained since day one, and Larry's death only served to make her more paranoid. It's fitting that she would snap and try to take control of something, because she had nothing left, and kill someone. I tried to stay neutral throughout episode 2 and decided against killing Larry and thought I had a good grasp of what was right and wrong. I made decisions that, while may not have been the best for survival, helped me keep my humanity intact. I had allies, especially in Carley, who I shared a mutual trust and bond with. Episode 3 throws all of that for a loop and Carley/Doug's death as well as Chuck's words of wisdom served as a lesson that Lee has to do whatever it takes to protect the ones he loves. I found myself in episode 3 making more pragmatic and sometimes harsh decisions for the sake of survival. Carley's death pushed me over the edge and made me decide that whoever would try to fuck with me would get left behind.
Now, ask yourselves, what other game makes a player go through an emotional journey like that? For what purpose would being a God-like character who can control every situation and save everybody he wants towards a happy ending serve? I am kind of pissed at the TV show for keeping Shane and Daryl as long as they did just because the characters were popular. Just about everybody who died in season 2 were arguably the least popular characters. At the end of Episode 3 of the game, I was left with people I had bad blood with or just flat out didn't trust. The safety is gone. This is the zombie apocalypse.
Lee foreshadowed somewhat the events and themes of episode 3 when reflecting on Hershel's farm with Kenny at the pharmacy: "You didn't have a choice. You think you do when you look back on it, but in a moment? When things are really out of control? You don't have any choice."
Especially in episode 3, we'll find that a lot of the time, the story will be driven by the plot, and that means things will be out of your control. People will die, but that doesn't mean you should take a fatalist approach to life. What's important is what you do with the situations put in front of you and the time you have with the people you're with. You will grow as a person, and in this case, things will definitely resonate with Clementine. Just because someone dies doesn't mean that everything you did with them was for nothing. This game IS about choice, but not control. In the zombie apocalypse, not everything will be driven by characters, and not everything will be fair, and it shouldn't be. Carley/Doug's death was tragic, but it was not written for pure shock value. You have to react to what happened. How mad are you? You spent three episodes building a relationship with these people and now that they're gone, what will you do? Are you willing to abandon Lilly? What does this mean for your decision-making in the future? When you find out that Ben was responsible, what do you plan to do with him? That's what matters.
If you want to look at it from a technical perspective, there's no conceivable way for the story to accommodate EVERY SINGLE permutation players want. In a story that spans five episodes, things will get harder to stay coherent and Telltale is doing a commendable job with providing a compelling narrative at the same time as providing players with as much choice as they can. If players were given a free roam of the plot, the story would fall apart eventually. Take Skyrim, for example. For the most part, a player has near complete control of how they want to handle a quest, at the cost of a compelling narrative. Mass Effect also understands the need for a coherent plot and even though it gives players choice, certain things WILL happen. Just because certain outcomes are inevitable does NOT mean there is an illusion of choice. The Walking Dead has done a better job, in my opinion, in making choice matter than Mass Effect or Dragon Age. I've played several scenes over again dozens of times and the amount of difference your choices make is staggering. In no way was this created lazily, so give the writers a break.
You have a choice, and although it may not matter in the long run, it matters NOW.
Exactly! Bazinga! I knew that when Carley/Doug died people would IMMEDIATELY run to this board to complain.
I know it sucks but its a zombie apocalypse and life isn't fair all the time.
Every response i've seen complaining has been clearly emotionally inspired NOT logically.
Lilly flew off the handle and murdered Carley/Doug. Sad but its time to move on.
Hey people, I'm new to the game and the forums. I just played all three episodes for the first time and loved the experience.
But this episode had one tiny thing that ruined it for me: The cut-Clem's-hair-quest. Seriously, "Her hair is a lot safer now"?! It's not like she's not wearing clothes that are equally "grabable"...
It would have been much better if she had come up with the idea herself, seeking for a piece of normality in the mess, going like: "My hair has grown so long, by now my mom would have taken me to the barber" or whatever. But some weird old guy recommending a hair cut because that's supposed to be safer? That was just ridiculous and annoying, killing all immersion.
I don't understand your complaint. Lee is her guardian, and Chuck served to wake him up and realize that he needs to take measures to keep her safe. Clem liked her hair; of course she wouldn't want to cut it. But she WAS grabbed by her hair before (and never by her clothes, which weren't loose-fitting anyways). What part of this was ridiculous, annoying, and immersion-killing?
Exactly! Bazinga! I knew that when Carley/Doug died people would IMMEDIATELY run to this board to complain.
I know it sucks but its a zombie apocalypse and life isn't fair all the time.
Every response i've seen complaining has been clearly emotionally inspired NOT logically.
Lilly flew off the handle and murdered Carley/Doug. Sad but its time to move on.
Thanks for backing me up haha. I think it's a mark of skill on Telltale's part for creating characters people are attached with and doing things that would evoke such a strong response. The external conflicts more or less ended up the same at the end of the episode, but no doubt players who play 4 and 5 will keep what happened in mind and that would affect their decision making. The game didn't change; the players did.
I'm interested to know if Clem (or anyone else for that matter) actually acts any differently towards you, depending on whether you killed or spared the St John bros? Also does Clem act any differently towards you depending on your decision whether or not to take the supplies at the end of Episode 2?
I ask because I killed both brothers in front of her and took the supplies against her wishes and it doesn't seem to have effected our relationship one bit. Nor does it seem to have effected my relationship with anyone else.
I don't understand your complaint. Lee is her guardian, and Chuck served to wake him up and realize that he needs to take measures to keep her safe. Clem liked her hair; of course she wouldn't want to cut it. But she WAS grabbed by her hair before (and never by her clothes, which weren't loose-fitting anyways). What part of this was ridiculous, annoying, and immersion-killing?
That cutting her hair doesn't make it any safer for her. Next time a zombie grabs her arm - so amputate it? It's ridiculous in my opinion.
Exactly! Bazinga! I knew that when Carley/Doug died people would IMMEDIATELY run to this board to complain.
I know it sucks but its a zombie apocalypse and life isn't fair all the time. Every response i've seen complaining has been clearly emotionally inspired NOT logically.
Lilly flew off the handle and murdered Carley/Doug. Sad but its time to move on.
Well you can't have seen many responses then. Most people are upset 'cos killing them off so soon, basically renders the decision to save either/or in episode one, totally pointless, apart from a few superficial differences... and now everyone is basically playing the EXACT same story, no matter what choices you've made up until now. The only difference being whether you saved Christa or Omid at the end of ep 3. But chances are, that'll all be forgotten after one discussion at the beginning of ep 4. Like most things are.
That cutting her hair doesn't make it any safer for her. Next time a zombie grabs her arm - so amputate it? It's ridiculous in my opinion.
You can control your arm way better than your hair, obviously. And besides, even if a limb was as much a danger as hair, cutting your hair would at the very least eliminate one more danger. And wouldn't be as permanent. There are literally no pros to keeping longer hair. And at least one con.
That cutting her hair doesn't make it any safer for her. Next time a zombie grabs her arm - so amputate it? It's ridiculous in my opinion.
Well it does make it safer for her. It's one less thing to grab. Might not make much difference, but still it can't hurt to have one less thing for walker to grab on to. They should've cut it shorter though.
Well you can't have seen many responses then. Most people are upset 'cos killing them off so soon, basically renders the decision to save either/or in episode one, totally pointless, apart from a few superficial differences... and now everyone is basically playing the EXACT same story, no matter what choices you've made up until now. The only difference being whether you saved Christa or Omid at the end of ep 3. But chances are, that'll all be forgotten after one discussion at the beginning of ep 4. Like most things are.
You're all acting as though you're robots doing the exact same thing. Sure, there will be a big overlap in what we will experience, but don't tell me that we will all play it the same way. There will be different experiences even if the game remains the same for the rest of the way.
I just finished It and Its strongly emotional but at the end that mysterious guy from walkie talkie says that he GOT Clems parents.But If I remember.In Episode 1 when Lee enters the house and listen to the phone.Diana(Clems mother)says that Ed(Clems father) has been attacked(bitten).Or Am I wrong?
Comments
man when that happens, hit pause got to main menu then, go to episode 3, and hit continue, it works for me every time that happens !!
Other than that I thought this episode was amazing.
My review of the game if you would like to read it. Hope you all enjoyed this episode as much as I did.
This is bullshit already.
I am getting really pissed off and frustrated. This should have been fixed days ago.
It's not fair.
Man not to laugh at your pain neither to be a troll but....wrong thread !
If you stay here you might get some spoilers
I know what you mean. I also had the impression that it felt a little rushed; that being said, the fact that you never know what's going to happen and that no one is really safe is what makes The walking dead the thriller it is. Personnaly, I liked Carley (and Doug too) and I couldn't believe what happened to her. I also think that Carley\Doug's fate served to illustrate the deep emotional and psychological turmoil that Lilly was going through since the end of episode 2. When she said "I have nothing left" you could really see how far gone she was. Amazing episode in my opinion !
I came here to say exactly this. Introducing the Doug/Carley dilemma in the first episode seemed to suggest there would be a big fork in the story based on that choice (other people have been debating their reasons for saving one or the other for awhile now, which shows they were expecting it to matter, too). Instead, they were largely put aside for the second episode, then completely killed off early in the third. I was attached to Doug because he was the one person I really had a choice in saving, and it felt like he was killed just for the designer's convenience. Why present it as though our choices matter if the idea is just to keep us on the same linear story path with just an occasional change in character model or line of dialogue to make it seem different? As it is, it's like picking Mario or Luigi in the original Super Mario Brothers, a superficial change that doesn't actually alter gameplay in any significant way.
Other than that, I don't have much to complain about. The acting is good, the story has been gripping at times, and my wife and I have gotten a lot of enjoyment out of it. I just wish it didn't present itself as a game of meaningful choices, when it's really about telling a single story slightly differently.
I understand that it shows Lilly's lost it, but I think it could have been shown in another way too, or just having her kill someone, like your actions lead to her killing Ben or Carley/Doug. At least then it wouldn't feel like it was arbitrary.
The following isn't towards your comment Lucky.
At the end of the day this is a game, and I know they want to evoke the setting. But still as a game (as opposed to a comic) we, the players, should have a little say in-game over the outcome otherwise it loses something. As I've said I have no problem with folks dying. One of my favorite book series is a war series where several character's die all the time, part of what sets games apart from book and movies is that we should be able to stop that from time to time.
Dude, this game is about CHOICE. I have been nothing but kind to Duck since the beginning. I even gave him a high 5 just because he found the chalk. You CHOSE to be rude to Duck. Just like we have the choice to lie to Clementine or be honest, you can choose to be a dick or not. I chose not to tell the stupid idiot teenager that I was a killer, I CHOSE to tell Katja what happened in the freezer.
I left Lillie on the road to rot because she shot someone in cold blood based on nothing but her own grief fueled paranoia. I would have NEVER put her back in my car after that. Also she RUINED my budding romance. So she had to go.
Sounds like you hated the choices that you made. Play through again and try it.
also: Apparently I'm the only person who thinks that rash decisions like Lillie shooting Carly won't actually happen when untrained people get guns during an apocalypse, or people with itchy trigger fingers and god complex's start trying to run things. It's plausible.
DAMN. Just...damn.
There's not a whole lot to say I didn't say in my 1 and 2 reviews. I'm just really impressed with how Telltale manages to make you feel uncomfortable with your actions. There aren't a lot of games that allow you to kill children, and I won't lie, during the few games that do let you I usually take advantage of the opportunity as much as possible. I'll gladly waste a bullet every time I see a kid in Deus Ex, even though I leave every other friendly NPC alone. And most of my time in Scribblenauts was spent thinking up new ways to kill babies. But when you have to shoot Duck...I just didn't want to do it. I sort of just stared there at the screen for a minute, preparing to hate myself. So far every episode has been more heartbreaking than the one before it, so I'm expecting the finale to be roughly on par with the Holocaust.
Also, I find it interesting how it seems Telltale is trying to give us a new perspective on Kenny with each episode. In Episode 1 he seemed like an overall decent guy with a few flaws. In Episode 2 it seemed they just wanted us to hate him, and now you just want to give him a big hug and tell him it'll be OK. I'm curious of just how Kenny will turn out in the end. Mind you, the last time Telltale kept shifting how people feel about a character back and forth like this was Edna Strickland.
Anyway, flaws. I'm kind of upset Carley/Doug was killed so early, since so far saving them in Episode 1 has been the only truly consequential choice. I haven't tried doing a playthrough for Doug yet, so I don't know how different things are with him, but Carley had a pretty low-key role in Episode 2, then died at the start of 3. I know it'd be difficult to have two different characters at once like that in the long term, but still, it's a tease when only one choice has had a real consequence, and even that wasn't much. Then again, before Episode 2 came out I was expecting Carley/Doug to die there, so props for keeping it up an episode longer than expected, I guess.
Come to think of it, Telltale has been padding the body count quite a bit, even to the point of bringing in new characters just for it (Mark). I know that this is par for the course in the world of The Walking Dead, but when someone's dying in every scene death stops being dramatic and starts being routine (or maybe that's the point?).
To be honest, as much as I like him, I kind of hope Lee dies at the end. While Robert Kirkman's never had the balls to kill Rick, Telltale's got the chance to hit the player where it really hurts and make the whole thing a big shaggy dog story for their hero. Maybe even force you to choose between yourself or Clementine, guaranteeing you lose in the end either way. That's just me, though.
Also, I know it's been discussed to death already and everyone (me included) is sick of hearing about it, but I think I've got to address Telltale's poor communication skills. The episodic model, coupled with the approval process for consoles, makes delivering exact release dates tricky for Telltale (I call it Telltale Time. Like Valve Time, but not as bad since they just released Episode 3.
Anyway, overall, an amazing episode, worth the wait, looking forward to the next one. Also...
BANAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANG!
Oh, and, for Duck and Doug... RIP.
That's an...interesting...position to take. I have played several games where killing children was an option, the original Fallout in particular comes to mind, since you could get the moniker of Child Killer if you kept it up. I have never relished the experience, myself. There's some novelty in "Oh, I can really kill anyone?", but it's usually without purpose. In this case, I had no remorse about shooting Duck, anymore than I had about shooting the bitten woman in the street. As I told Clementine, I put him out of his misery. Too much zombie mythos has taught me that infected people inevitably suffer, die, turn, and kill. I just wish the game would have allowed me to discuss it with Kat and Kenny sooner, to end it quick on the train and save Kat's life.
On the subject, I thought it was kind of odd they didn't have him speak another word after they show he's bitten. I suppose he was in shock, but maybe if you asked him if he wanted to turn into an undead, flesh-eating monster he might have voiced an opinion on the subject.
No shit, game lives up to the comics, no doubt about that. And both let me feel like shit, the game more than the comics. Congratulations!
Also: I think killing of Doug/Carly was too soon, but just my opinion.
Same with me.. It actually took me 4 hours to play this with all the deaths.
I didnt keep count but I bet near 40times
I spent more time looking for anything I may have missed before I realized to just shoot them. I think it was just harder. level 3. lol
But thats kinda the point, there you are.. what are ya gonna do? figure it out!
The Clem dream part was awsome. I thought "awww shit" then was relief even when cussing TT for making me see that!
I left lily behind.. she seemed to be losing it, Kenny and I killed her dad.. figured she needs to go away before she kills me.
I made sure I told Kenny what he wanted to hear, his best pal, and told him as his father he needs to take care of Duck. He's upset now, but still my friend til the boat!
Christa and whatshisname are okay. if anything walkerbait if needed.
As for Clem's walki talkie thing.. I remember Glenn driving off with he other one. So my assumption is, someone got it from Glenn and has talking to Clem.
But Glenn went to Atlanta, we're on our way to Savannah. so if Im right, who she's talking to wont matter.
But i guess TT could just say Terry St.John is really alive and somehow just happens to have a Walkie. Just happens to talk to Clem who mentions all that's happened any how he know's we're headed to Savannah.
Very satisfied
I'll have to try it again and keep the deaths to a minimum!
Oh, and teaching Clem to shoot.. everytime Lee set up a new bottle, I just cringed waiting for Clem to accidentaly shoot Lee in the back.
This episode, good as the story may be, has terribly weakened my interest in this game. Any choice in this game will only produce a slightly different section of dialogue or cutscene. It seemed like siding with Lilly or Kenny might change the structure/makeup/fate of the group. Ditto with Carley or Doug. Two episodes later, it might as well not have happened at all. It doesn't matter what you do. The plot of the entire adventure won't stray far. I feel like I'm just editing a movie somebody else has already shot.
Maybe it's unrealistic for me to ask for a video game that has a phenomenally complex tree of possibilities. The amount of time and energy it takes to create something even this variable is enormous. It's just disappointing when I can pick up a "Choose Your Own Adventure" novel meant for eight year old's and get plot arcs that go in any direction. Probably to make The Walking Dead game I had in my head would take ten years to make and cost $1000 a unit. Although, I would seriously consider paying $1000 in advance if Telltale ever wants to make that game.
Also, it burns me up that I didn't get the option to kill Lilly. Screw comic book canon. She's leaving the group anyway. Let me shoot her in the head and then after we leave, show her miraculously survive. And the entirety of Lee's emotional reaction to Carley/Doug's death was one mean look at Lilly and one bad dream? What the hell kind of person is Lee? Is he good at repressing, or just a sociopath?
Yesterday a girl "he thinks about" kissed him, then got her brains blown out needlessly. Today, he sees his friend commit suicide. After that, he shoots a child in the face. What does he have to say? "What a crappy day. Oh well, let's put on a smile and clear the way for this train."
Man I can't WAIT for the last two episodes... I have never been this excited about a video-game before and it's not like I haven't played many!
That was a cheap way to not let us change what lily would do.
And Carley... GOD WHY CARLEY MAN???
amazing episode, but Lily snapping was too fast, and how Carley/Doug left the series felt a bit rushed.
Other than that I thought it was another great installment of TWD. Great storytelling, atmosphere, and plenty of emotion. Carley and Katjaa deaths were shocking to say the least and Duck's was pure torture and sadness. I actually waited for him to stop breathing so as to supposedly not hurt him
TTG did say it was going to get worse from here, so I can't wait for the next episode.
Also, I'm beginning to suspect the only reason most people are overly upset about Carley is because they wanted to have a romantic relationship with her. That's just stupid.
I've always sided with Kenny notated what and I felt so bad for him when his son was bitten and then his wife commited suicide I felt so bad for the guy !!!
Can't wait for the next episode and can't wait to find out who the guy on the radio is could it be Andrew Saint-John because who ever it is know lee and after all we don't know if he actually died and also everyone keeps on talking about chuck being Terry so could there be a reunion and more betrayal guess we will just have to find out !!!
Carley/Doug were most likely close to Lee, with the former even hinting at a romance. Lilly had been strained since day one, and Larry's death only served to make her more paranoid. It's fitting that she would snap and try to take control of something, because she had nothing left, and kill someone. I tried to stay neutral throughout episode 2 and decided against killing Larry and thought I had a good grasp of what was right and wrong. I made decisions that, while may not have been the best for survival, helped me keep my humanity intact. I had allies, especially in Carley, who I shared a mutual trust and bond with. Episode 3 throws all of that for a loop and Carley/Doug's death as well as Chuck's words of wisdom served as a lesson that Lee has to do whatever it takes to protect the ones he loves. I found myself in episode 3 making more pragmatic and sometimes harsh decisions for the sake of survival. Carley's death pushed me over the edge and made me decide that whoever would try to fuck with me would get left behind.
Now, ask yourselves, what other game makes a player go through an emotional journey like that? For what purpose would being a God-like character who can control every situation and save everybody he wants towards a happy ending serve? I am kind of pissed at the TV show for keeping Shane and Daryl as long as they did just because the characters were popular. Just about everybody who died in season 2 were arguably the least popular characters. At the end of Episode 3 of the game, I was left with people I had bad blood with or just flat out didn't trust. The safety is gone. This is the zombie apocalypse.
Lee foreshadowed somewhat the events and themes of episode 3 when reflecting on Hershel's farm with Kenny at the pharmacy: "You didn't have a choice. You think you do when you look back on it, but in a moment? When things are really out of control? You don't have any choice."
Especially in episode 3, we'll find that a lot of the time, the story will be driven by the plot, and that means things will be out of your control. People will die, but that doesn't mean you should take a fatalist approach to life. What's important is what you do with the situations put in front of you and the time you have with the people you're with. You will grow as a person, and in this case, things will definitely resonate with Clementine. Just because someone dies doesn't mean that everything you did with them was for nothing. This game IS about choice, but not control. In the zombie apocalypse, not everything will be driven by characters, and not everything will be fair, and it shouldn't be. Carley/Doug's death was tragic, but it was not written for pure shock value. You have to react to what happened. How mad are you? You spent three episodes building a relationship with these people and now that they're gone, what will you do? Are you willing to abandon Lilly? What does this mean for your decision-making in the future? When you find out that Ben was responsible, what do you plan to do with him? That's what matters.
My (Lee's) relationship with Carley changed me. This was someone I spent three episodes building a trust with, and who was a constant ally through all my troubles and supported me. Her death enraged me, but I wasn't mad at the game. I was mad at Lilly, I eventually got mad at Ben, but I was also mad at myself for not doing what it took to keep my loved ones safe. Don't tell me my decision to save her in episode 1 didn't matter. She was an ally who was killed senselessly and I would from that point forward would make sure it wouldn't happen again. I decided I would be honest about my past with everyone in the group. I decided not to hide anything from Omid and Christa because I felt that would make Carley, Clementine, and even old Hershel proud. THAT'S my choice.
If you want to look at it from a technical perspective, there's no conceivable way for the story to accommodate EVERY SINGLE permutation players want. In a story that spans five episodes, things will get harder to stay coherent and Telltale is doing a commendable job with providing a compelling narrative at the same time as providing players with as much choice as they can. If players were given a free roam of the plot, the story would fall apart eventually. Take Skyrim, for example. For the most part, a player has near complete control of how they want to handle a quest, at the cost of a compelling narrative. Mass Effect also understands the need for a coherent plot and even though it gives players choice, certain things WILL happen. Just because certain outcomes are inevitable does NOT mean there is an illusion of choice. The Walking Dead has done a better job, in my opinion, in making choice matter than Mass Effect or Dragon Age. I've played several scenes over again dozens of times and the amount of difference your choices make is staggering. In no way was this created lazily, so give the writers a break.
You have a choice, and although it may not matter in the long run, it matters NOW.
But this episode had one tiny thing that ruined it for me: The cut-Clem's-hair-quest. Seriously, "Her hair is a lot safer now"?! It's not like she's not wearing clothes that are equally "grabable"...
It would have been much better if she had come up with the idea herself, seeking for a piece of normality in the mess, going like: "My hair has grown so long, by now my mom would have taken me to the barber" or whatever. But some weird old guy recommending a hair cut because that's supposed to be safer? That was just ridiculous and annoying, killing all immersion.
Exactly! Bazinga! I knew that when Carley/Doug died people would IMMEDIATELY run to this board to complain.
I know it sucks but its a zombie apocalypse and life isn't fair all the time.
Every response i've seen complaining has been clearly emotionally inspired NOT logically.
Lilly flew off the handle and murdered Carley/Doug. Sad but its time to move on.
I don't understand your complaint. Lee is her guardian, and Chuck served to wake him up and realize that he needs to take measures to keep her safe. Clem liked her hair; of course she wouldn't want to cut it. But she WAS grabbed by her hair before (and never by her clothes, which weren't loose-fitting anyways). What part of this was ridiculous, annoying, and immersion-killing?
Thanks for backing me up haha. I think it's a mark of skill on Telltale's part for creating characters people are attached with and doing things that would evoke such a strong response. The external conflicts more or less ended up the same at the end of the episode, but no doubt players who play 4 and 5 will keep what happened in mind and that would affect their decision making. The game didn't change; the players did.
I ask because I killed both brothers in front of her and took the supplies against her wishes and it doesn't seem to have effected our relationship one bit. Nor does it seem to have effected my relationship with anyone else.
That cutting her hair doesn't make it any safer for her. Next time a zombie grabs her arm - so amputate it? It's ridiculous in my opinion.
Well you can't have seen many responses then. Most people are upset 'cos killing them off so soon, basically renders the decision to save either/or in episode one, totally pointless, apart from a few superficial differences... and now everyone is basically playing the EXACT same story, no matter what choices you've made up until now. The only difference being whether you saved Christa or Omid at the end of ep 3. But chances are, that'll all be forgotten after one discussion at the beginning of ep 4. Like most things are.
You can control your arm way better than your hair, obviously. And besides, even if a limb was as much a danger as hair, cutting your hair would at the very least eliminate one more danger. And wouldn't be as permanent. There are literally no pros to keeping longer hair. And at least one con.
Well it does make it safer for her. It's one less thing to grab. Might not make much difference, but still it can't hurt to have one less thing for walker to grab on to. They should've cut it shorter though.
You're all acting as though you're robots doing the exact same thing. Sure, there will be a big overlap in what we will experience, but don't tell me that we will all play it the same way. There will be different experiences even if the game remains the same for the rest of the way.