I have to admit, despite everything... I find I just can't hate Lilly....
I hope the novel really does focus on her, rather than having her just in it.
I hope so too. In my opinion Lilly is one of the best characters in TWD (thanks to the game, of course) and making her the bad guy in ep.3 really adds more depth to her personality and her possible development in the book.
Kenny and Lee had kids to take care, so they wouldn't risk dealing with bandits. It is a sound logic and I was thinking of it too when I played this ep. for the first time.
As for Carley, I can't really agree that she was challenging Lilly's leadership. Carley rarely did anything besides shooting a few heads.
Did you skip Episodes 1 and 2 or something? The first time you meet Lilly, it's a fight with Carley because Carley just rescued everybody from zombies.
Everybody. That was Carley. She rolls out and shoots all the zombies in the head and then Glenn comes by and shows you to the office.
Actually, when has Lilly rescued anybody except for that one time MAYBE if you perform CPR on her dad. Other than that, she never saves a single life in the game.
Hell, you save 6 times as many people as she possibly can in her entire life in ONE scene at the start of Episode 3.
Not one.
Lilly's entire role in the game is to shout at you for rescuing people and then tell you how hard it is being the boss of everybody even when no one actually thinks she's the boss. And then she shoots Carley/Doug in the head.
Lilly's absolutely useless in this game. She's a parasite. If she didn't seem like a romantic option, no one would defend her.
No matter how much Kenny hates you, he ends up saving your life in this game more often than you save his. And this is a guy who repeatedly seems to leave you to die.
And yet there's a hate thread for Kenny while everyone talks about how much they love Lilly -- for shooting the BIGGEST hero in the game other than Lee right in the dome for backsassing her.
Is this why serial killers get love letters or something?
As much as people hate Kenny for letting you struggle if you turn your back on him, at least he doesn't actively try to get you killed like Lilly does the first time you meet her.
Haha, I'm sorry but that made me laugh.
Yeah, Carley shoots one or max two zombies in that first scene. Far from shooting all the zombies. I guess you skipped episode 1.
Then Lilly calls her stupid for risking all their lives to save people she didn't know. Guess what? She was right! There's a convicted murderer in that group and Kenny who's constantly blaming you for not letting people die. People said that Lilly was the Shane of this group, I would say it's Kenny. He's willing to let people die even when his family isn't present. Replay the beginning of ep.3 if you disagree.
Lilly does not shout to you when you rescue people, she shouts when you are bringing people to the group without knowing them. There's a huge difference in that. Let's remember what happen in ep.3! There was a traitor and who it was? The guy Lee brought in? He might not have meant ill, but he did keep his deal with the bandits secret... So maybe Lilly is right for not trusting people right away?
Lilly's absolutely useless in this game. She's a parasite. If she didn't seem like a romantic option, no one would defend her.
Substitute Lilly with Carley and I might agree.
Kenny... there's a hate thread for Kenny because he leaves you to die far too many times and also killed Larry. People seem to forget about Larry. It might look to you that leaving Larry to die is not bad decision, now, but when we were discussing ep.2 (in the **** kenny thread) this was nowhere near right. To me even now it is not right, probably because I don't judge about events that haven't happened yet. Lilly have been always back me up, saved my life in ep.2 and later she saved all our lives in ep 3.
Why wouldn't I make an appreciation thread for her? She's a great character that develops a lot through the game. At first she's more rational, keeping her compassionate side away. In ep.3 she thinks that letting the girl suffer was wrong on many levels, while Kenny thinks it is right. People made the **** kenny thread because he doesn't help anyone except for his family. He changes for the worst and even Katjaa notices that.
Lilly starts as a tough girl who's trying to keep everybody alive. Then she toughens even more, not trusting people outside the camp. After the meat locker she realizes she has been wrong. The dangers are not only outside the group but within it as well. She let's her compassionate side show more as she realized that "The list of people I can trust gets shorter every day!". She then goes even more paranoid and founding that there was a traitor in the group really does bring her to the edge.
Then she does something that I'm sure she'll regret for her entire life. That's disappointing Lee, of course, not killing Carley.
She believed Carley or Ben were the traitors and though she was wrong, Carley did indeed look guilty with all the "I'm gonna be the good girl that's gonna protect everybody, even though that guy must be the one who almost got everybody killed and made us leave or home".
You're mistaken my friend, there are no heroes in this game.
I'm sorry if you cannot appreciate how well written Lilly's character is and how much she brought to this story. Carley is the love interest you all fall for and despite how much you love her, she wasn't integral to the story. If you save Doug in ep.1 you'll see that I'm right.
Yami isn't defending Lilly because he thought she was a potential love interest, he just really likes her character. I like Lilly's character too, and agree that the game would be different without her, and possibly not in a good way. As for siding with Lilly...I never did that once. In my playthrough she's a cold-hearted bitch (from my point of view) who went over the edge when someone else made one of the "hard choices" she's always going on about (Kenny in the meat locker). While killing Larry may not have been exactly right, it may have been necessary which is why I backed Kenny up.
Besides, she agrees with her dad to throw Duck out in Ep1 if you stay silent. She was all for killing a child she just met because he was a "potential danger." What did she do when Larry became a "potential danger?" While she is a great character, I hate her personality. Thought I may have gotten to see the true her after Larry died, but she lost it. And can we truly just forgive her for the murder of a group member? No matter how you hash it, it's nearly impossible to walk away from the RV scene and see Lilly as looking out for the group's well being.
I'm sorry, I thought this thread was about supporting Lily's decision and to somehow prove that she was not in the wrong. To discuss her personality.
Because I think Lily's a great character and that she fits well in the TWD world. I approve and support the existance or Lily in the game. But f#¥k her as a person.
@plaqueconspiracy
I don't know, maybe you don't have much interaction with people face to face or something , people get angry and do/say things things they cannot take back in moments of anger. There's no need to build a straw man for your argument, it's pretty simple. Point out where I ever said she was right doing what she did.
@plaqueconspiracy
I don't know, maybe you don't have much interaction with people face to face or something , people get angry and do/say things things they cannot take back in moments of anger. There's no need to build a straw man for your argument, it's pretty simple. Point out where I ever said she was right doing what she did.
I'm not exactly sure why you're telling me that people do bad stuff when they're angry. I am aware of this. You came out of nowhere and said it so I figured you're trying to justify the murder somehow. We are now on the same page. ... Unless you're still trying to do that. Under a rage blackout or not, you're still a bad person for doing something Lily did in that moment. "I was mad, Your Honor. So, are we cool?". She's bad. I'm good.
For the record, I do not have anger issues. I am not mentally unstable. And I sure as hell don't know what kind of interactions you have with people on a daily basis. I commute roughly 4-5 hours a day (train, tram and bus) so I meet and talk to a lot of people. I have not had many instances where someone gets shot in the face for calling someone a scared little girl.
Lilly does not reward you for your loyalty. Even after you decided to bring her back onto the RV, telling her she should go, and then agreeing to go with her, she ditches after she tricks you into leaving the RV.
Both kenny and lilly were not good leader imo because 1 lilly was only looking after her dad and she got dillusional after the freezer part understandable. 2 kenny was only looking after his family which is also understandable.
I think if the situation were a little more stable (I mean, how the hell can you really keep it together in a ZA?) she'd have been the perfect leader.
Yeah, I agree. She had what one needs in order to be a great leader. However, the group somehow didn't help. They watched how Lilly and Kenny would argue all the time without really trying to find some sort of permanent solution. I knew things wouldn't last long enough after the meat locker scene. Something bad was bound to happen and the only way to avoid it was if the group split into smaller once right after ep. 2.
Well, I like Lilly's personality as well. I think she was a great leader to an unworthy group.
That's just suggesting that everyone in any ZA group should all be comprised of people who only care about living.
There's no way Lilly can redeem herself at all. If this is the past, she killed a member of a group because she's unstable.
Then in the future she kills Lori and Judith and follows under a sociopath dictator. Shooting the Governor doesn't redeem anything of what she did.
She was unstable that her dad died, and went paranoid and killed someone because of it. Then she's obviously still not in her right mind following someone like the Governor, and then you think she's going to stabilize after murdering a baby? Not happening, not in any world I know unless she enjoys killing like a sociopath.
Ep1
Lilly /Larry had control of the group. She's the brain he's the brawn
2 males, a bleeding boy and his mother come charging in.
You dont even make introductions and her authority is challenged with Duck.
Kenny immediately starts throwing his 'I have a family to protect' weight around and apparently assumes command. Ep2
Group rules no one into our compound
In comes Lee/Kenny and 3 stangers (unforseeable; but could be seen as a breach of rules by Lily).
Stress of rationing food is on her mind.
The 2 men who she didnt even want into the group kill her father (whether you help or not, thats how she sees it)
Now she's a female in charge of a group with 2 able bodied men, one is clearly fighting her for the leaders's spot. And she's all alone. Ep3
On top of everything else; she suspects a traitor
'that bitch' who wont listen to her commands from Ep1 is now mouthing off to her.
Kenny has a smart remark for every decision she makes for the group (Ben on watch)
Now on top of it all, the traitor has brought the bandits right to their doorstep and caught them totally off guard-everything she was thinking is confirmed;
'no one is listening to me; we're getting lazy; this kinda shit is gonna get us all killed; we need to nip this in the bud and make an example' type thinking is probably boiling through her
Now granted, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Lily doesnt even know what honey is. She's military; she doesnt deal in small talk and civility; she expects people to follow orders (probably like she's used to). But her shining trait is that she was GROUP-oriented, unlike Kenny who wouldnt think twice turning tail and leaving them all to die as long as his family is alive.
Kenny's constant smart remarks, heard within group range and always in Lee's ear totally undermined her efforts of unifying the group under her command.
She's military but she wasn't exactly a soldier. Put a group of strangers with polar personalities on their survival grind in a group together and there will be trouble. How long had they been holding out in the drug store again? A day? A few days? She and her dad instantly decided that the life of others are worth jack shit. How many hours does it take to lose your humanity and go bananas? You'd think a few more than just a couple. They say Lee and the others are just a bunch of strangers and are not to be trusted but they were all strangers and she was trying to boss them and make very harsh decisions for them. How could you ever just expect and order someone to let two families just die right in front of them?
I really don't think she's a good leader. At all. I think she only designated herself as "leader" because she wanted power over others. And then, when she murders (and I stress that word) Carley and realizes that she doesn't have that power anymore, she shows her true colors.
Ep1
Lilly /Larry had control of the group. She's the brain he's the brawn
2 males, a bleeding boy and his mother come charging in.
You dont even make introductions and her authority is challenged with Duck.
Kenny immediately starts throwing his 'I have a family to protect' weight around and apparently assumes command. Ep2
Group rules no one into our compound
In comes Lee/Kenny and 3 stangers (unforseeable; but could be seen as a breach of rules by Lily).
Stress of rationing food is on her mind.
The 2 men who she didnt even want into the group kill her father (whether you help or not, thats how she sees it)
Now she's a female in charge of a group with 2 able bodied men, one is clearly fighting her for the leaders's spot. And she's all alone. Ep3
On top of everything else; she suspects a traitor
'that bitch' who wont listen to her commands from Ep1 is now mouthing off to her.
Kenny has a smart remark for every decision she makes for the group (Ben on watch)
Now on top of it all, the traitor has brought the bandits right to their doorstep and caught them totally off guard-everything she was thinking is confirmed;
'no one is listening to me; we're getting lazy; this kinda shit is gonna get us all killed; we need to nip this in the bud and make an example' type thinking is probably boiling through her
Now granted, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Lily doesnt even know what honey is. She's military; she doesnt deal in small talk and civility; she expects people to follow orders (probably like she's used to). But her shining trait is that she was GROUP-oriented, unlike Kenny who wouldnt think twice turning tail and leaving them all to die as long as his family is alive.
Kenny's constant smart remarks, heard within group range and always in Lee's ear totally undermined her efforts of unifying the group under her command.
You summed it up greatly! Her character is quite complex and this clearly shows it. People try to diminish her personality because they hate her since Carley's death, the truth is she really tried to unify a broken group.
However, Lee is not necessarily her enemy. If you stick to her side, she sees you as a loyal friend and leader. Although, even if you're against her the whole time, if you help her with her dad, she'll start seeing you in a different light.
The downfall of this group begin with this moment "Kenny immediately starts throwing his 'I have a family to protect' weight around and apparently assumes command."
This topic contains Comic book spoilers. Read at your own risk
I guess I may be the only one here who would still support Lily if she shows up at some future point in time.
Why?
I appreciate her leadership skills, her selflessness (having to make all those little decisions is really difficult) and her reasoning. She tried to keep this group together, she did her very best but some other people...like Kenny always tried to have it their way, always consider what's only best for his family.
I think we all agree it was difficult giving the rations the first time in episode two. We got a glimpse of what she has to do every day. People hated us for those choices, so they hate her even more for having to do it every day. But there's no one else who would do it.
She was still pretty reasonable until Kenny murdered her father. People can complain that he saved them and all that crap... but you couldn't have known for sure and that's the truth. He overreacted and again being the selfish asshole he is, he did the easiest choice for him. Eliminate the enemy and undermine the leader's authority.
In episode 3 we see things haven't changed. Lily is still the only one to really tries to protect the group. Lee, of course, helps always and as much as he can, but others like Kenny... they didn't even feel bad for what they did in episode 2. Kenny ruined this group and yet he still wanted things to go his way. He kept pushing Lily without really doing anything for the group. He was determined to abandon all.
Carley... she didn't really do anything. She could've stepped in and helped Lily when she saw she was about to snap... but she didn't. The only thing she actually did was tease Lee, look cute, and avoid participation in almost every important discussion. The downfall in episode 3 is partially her fault as well.
When the bandits attacked the group it was again Lily that came to the rescue to a group that hated her. Kenny wouldn't swallow my disrespect for him and actually tried to get me killed too many times in this episode.
Ben... and Kenny really started a chain reaction. With both their stupidity combined they managed to indirectly kill Carley, Katjaa and Duck as well destroy the group from within.
Both cowards and both DUBM as a bag of hammers.
I would so love to see them gone in episode 4 & 5. I don't need stupid people in my group, people who know nothing about responsibility or humanity.
It was sad to see Lily snap but I guess there is a line as to where a person can take it. In the end of the day I'm sure she'll regret her choices and will eventually learn from them. She kills Lorry cause she believes they are threatening her group. When she sees how wrong she was she offs the Governor. That's a pretty redeeming deed in my book, one that clearly shows she actually develops.
I would certainly love to see more of her in future episodes/seasons.
So, am I the only one? Even if I am, I will still be defending this position to the end :P
just because you love lilly and wanted her to have sex with Lee doesn't mean she was perfect, she was made leader by her bully father, she wouldn't listen to the concerns of her group, she was very bad at rationing food (not feeding everybody is a stupid rationing scheme) or searching for supplies and once her father was dead she was in no state to be the leader of anything, she should have gave up her role as leader to her boyfriend lee
I liked Lilly and supported her most of the time. But murdering Carley was absolutely uncalled for. Real leaders don't just snap and shoot people for no reason.
That said, while Lee (mine), couldn't forgive her and left her on the side of the road, I still like her and hope to see her in the future, whether in the game or whatever. I plan on picking up the new novel too. I just hope her backstory in there isn't completely different. Looks like it might just completely ignore the game version of Lilly entirely.
I have to admit, Lilly is by far the best made character in the entire game. She's been very, very well written and has a vast variety of emotions and we will see her in Season 3 of the Walking Dead TV series (likely).
She started off in the comics as just a small scene character, but now it seems as if she will be a main character starring in a novel, as well as the game.
just because you love lilly and wanted her to have sex with Lee doesn't mean she was perfect, she was made leader by her bully father, she wouldn't listen to the concerns of her group, she was very bad at rationing food (not feeding everybody is a stupid rationing scheme) or searching for supplies and once her father was dead she was in no state to be the leader of anything, she should have gave up her role as leader to her boyfriend lee
DID YOU EVEN PLAY THE GAME?!
OMG!
My mind almost exploded because of your stupidity. They lacked food, so it was impossible to feed everyone, and she probably would have given the role to someone if she felt someone else could handle it. She felt no one else could hold her burden so she toughed it out, also Lee IS NOT A LEADER, HE WILL NEVER BE BECAUSE IT'S NOT IN HIS PERSONALITY, TTG didn't make him a leader type.
I hope you use the forums less because you're either a master troll or something from out of this world.
I have to admit, Lilly is by far the best made character in the entire game. She's been very, very well written and has a vast variety of emotions and we will see her in Season 3 of the Walking Dead TV series (likely).
She started off in the comics as just a small scene character, but now it seems as if she will be a main character starring in a novel, as well as the game.
I'm surprised, especially after considering what she did to you...
My mind almost exploded because of your stupidity. They lacked food, so it was impossible to feed everyone, and she probably would have given the role to someone if she felt someone else could handle it. She felt no one else could hold her burden so she toughed it out, also Lee IS NOT A LEADER, HE WILL NEVER BE BECAUSE IT'S NOT IN HIS PERSONALITY, TTG didn't make him a leader type.
I hope you use the forums less because you're either a master troll or something from out of this world.
i was just putting forward the perspective of kenny (who on my main save i am his 100% ally) , from kennys point of view they dont have food because they stayed in one place for to long, kenny should be in charge, and "just because you love lilly and wanted her to have sex with Lee doesn't mean she was perfect" was more aimed @YamiRaziel because they keep dismissing anybody's complaints as just wanting to have sex with Carley
I have to admit, Lilly is by far the best made character in the entire game. She's been very, very well written and has a vast variety of emotions and we will see her in Season 3 of the Walking Dead TV series (likely).
She started off in the comics as just a small scene character, but now it seems as if she will be a main character starring in a novel, as well as the game.
Pretty much my thoughts! I'm glad to see there are at least a bunch of people who if not like Lilly, at least appreciate her as a well written character.
zubie, I haven't seen any real leader, yet. You know the hardest part of being a leader is that you take responsibility for everybody's mistakes. Rick (comic book) is a leader material and he's doing great but he has snapped more than Lilly. Great leaders keep trying to the right thing despite failing. There are not perfect leaders, especially in ZA.
To me personally the best thing about Lilly's character is her imperfection. It makes her much more real.
P.S thestalkinghead, if I cared about virtual e-sex scenes I would be a Carley fan
The truth is I haven't really seen a great post that describes Carley's worth as a character without including her possible romance with Lee.
I find it funny how people casually mention Lilly and Larry "having control" of the group while ignoring that they took control by threatening everyone.
I don't care if she felt like she was losing power. The power was never hers in the first place. In fact, when she keeps trying to tell everyone she's in charge, no one takes her seriously. Lilly leads by saying, "Hey everybody, I'm in charge, now here's what we're going to do." And when someone says, "Maybe that's not a good idea, let's put it up to a vote," she freaks out and then says "I'm all alone, oh woe is me, there's no one I can trust."
And stop saying that everyone "agreed" on things Lilly keeps demanding. No one agreed to her demands, she just keeps telling people that her demands are the right ones and then throws a fit when people argue with her.
Seriously, she's queen of the pity party 24/7. If the world isn't against her for "making the hard choices," everyone is trying to personally destroy her life and tear her family apart. She's a coward and a toolbag.
I find it funny how people casually mention Lilly and Larry "having control" of the group while ignoring that they took control by threatening everyone.
I don't care if she felt like she was losing power. The power was never hers in the first place. In fact, when she keeps trying to tell everyone she's in charge, no one takes her seriously. Lilly leads by saying, "Hey everybody, I'm in charge, now here's what we're going to do." And when someone says, "Maybe that's not a good idea, let's put it up to a vote," she freaks out and then says "I'm all alone, oh woe is me, there's no one I can trust."
And stop saying that everyone "agreed" on things Lilly keeps demanding. No one agreed to her demands, she just keeps telling people that her demands are the right ones and then throws a fit when people argue with her.
Seriously, she's queen of the pity party 24/7. If the world isn't against her for "making the hard choices," everyone is trying to personally destroy her life and tear her family apart. She's a coward and a toolbag.
There's not even a word about Lilly here that I can agree with. Sorry, mate, but I don't see it that way at all.
Guys do you think some of Telltale's characters will be mentioned in the book The Road to Woodbury? Lee might be tough to describe, because he's too player dependent but Kenny shouldn't be hard.
It will be cool also if they somehow mention the RV argument... how she feels about it. If they mention it as the murder and avoid names it could apply for both Doug and Carley players.
So any thoughts?
Wait, we might get to see Lilly in the TV series? SWEET! Also, the writting would have to be pretty tricky I think, for the RV scene to be mentioned in the book. They'd have to make it vauge enough so as for it to be either Doug or Carley, and may have to take into consideration her being left on the road, or stealing the RV at the train.
Tricky, but possible. I would buy the book just for that.
Don't make any expectations for TTG's walking dead to make it into the book. Also, yeah, I like the character so much I made a facebook page for her in my sig, however the other two are completely independant and I still have to add Clem's and Lee's. Mine only has 8 compared to Carley and Doug's 100 likes because of haters. Besides, Lilly was the only realistic leader. Kenny was more like those kids on facebook that were all over Kony 2012. As opposed to the Carley approach by saying, "It's not that simple." as she slowly makes shit happen while being yelled at by the majority.
Besides, Rick snaps all the time. He beat the shit out of Tyreese, cannibals, and plenty others.
Carly is.
Therefore Lilly is better. Why?
Because she can get fans purely because she isn't a "love interest" for Lee, and doesn't have big tits and seems to like Lee no matter what he does. In the game, I always sided with the person who had the most reasonable argument so when Kenny talks about murdering Larry - when there's still a chance he could be alive is just outright insane. Besides, if he was going to drop a saltlick on his head surely if Larry were to reanimate, Kenny could just do it there and then, or Lee could spam Q, A, or X.
Also, may I add, you have the option to say to Kenny "What if that were your family?" He says that nothing will happen to them.
Welp. Look what happened.
Lilly never said that Larry would never turn into a zombie ever, she simply said he was fine.
Comments
I hope so too. In my opinion Lilly is one of the best characters in TWD (thanks to the game, of course) and making her the bad guy in ep.3 really adds more depth to her personality and her possible development in the book.
Did you skip Episodes 1 and 2 or something? The first time you meet Lilly, it's a fight with Carley because Carley just rescued everybody from zombies.
Everybody. That was Carley. She rolls out and shoots all the zombies in the head and then Glenn comes by and shows you to the office.
Actually, when has Lilly rescued anybody except for that one time MAYBE if you perform CPR on her dad. Other than that, she never saves a single life in the game.
Hell, you save 6 times as many people as she possibly can in her entire life in ONE scene at the start of Episode 3.
Not one.
Lilly's entire role in the game is to shout at you for rescuing people and then tell you how hard it is being the boss of everybody even when no one actually thinks she's the boss. And then she shoots Carley/Doug in the head.
Lilly's absolutely useless in this game. She's a parasite. If she didn't seem like a romantic option, no one would defend her.
No matter how much Kenny hates you, he ends up saving your life in this game more often than you save his. And this is a guy who repeatedly seems to leave you to die.
And yet there's a hate thread for Kenny while everyone talks about how much they love Lilly -- for shooting the BIGGEST hero in the game other than Lee right in the dome for backsassing her.
Is this why serial killers get love letters or something?
As much as people hate Kenny for letting you struggle if you turn your back on him, at least he doesn't actively try to get you killed like Lilly does the first time you meet her.
Yeah, Carley shoots one or max two zombies in that first scene. Far from shooting all the zombies. I guess you skipped episode 1.
Then Lilly calls her stupid for risking all their lives to save people she didn't know. Guess what? She was right! There's a convicted murderer in that group and Kenny who's constantly blaming you for not letting people die. People said that Lilly was the Shane of this group, I would say it's Kenny. He's willing to let people die even when his family isn't present. Replay the beginning of ep.3 if you disagree.
Lilly does not shout to you when you rescue people, she shouts when you are bringing people to the group without knowing them. There's a huge difference in that. Let's remember what happen in ep.3! There was a traitor and who it was? The guy Lee brought in? He might not have meant ill, but he did keep his deal with the bandits secret... So maybe Lilly is right for not trusting people right away? Substitute Lilly with Carley and I might agree.
Kenny... there's a hate thread for Kenny because he leaves you to die far too many times and also killed Larry. People seem to forget about Larry. It might look to you that leaving Larry to die is not bad decision, now, but when we were discussing ep.2 (in the **** kenny thread) this was nowhere near right. To me even now it is not right, probably because I don't judge about events that haven't happened yet. Lilly have been always back me up, saved my life in ep.2 and later she saved all our lives in ep 3.
Why wouldn't I make an appreciation thread for her? She's a great character that develops a lot through the game. At first she's more rational, keeping her compassionate side away. In ep.3 she thinks that letting the girl suffer was wrong on many levels, while Kenny thinks it is right. People made the **** kenny thread because he doesn't help anyone except for his family. He changes for the worst and even Katjaa notices that.
Lilly starts as a tough girl who's trying to keep everybody alive. Then she toughens even more, not trusting people outside the camp. After the meat locker she realizes she has been wrong. The dangers are not only outside the group but within it as well. She let's her compassionate side show more as she realized that "The list of people I can trust gets shorter every day!". She then goes even more paranoid and founding that there was a traitor in the group really does bring her to the edge.
Then she does something that I'm sure she'll regret for her entire life. That's disappointing Lee, of course, not killing Carley.
She believed Carley or Ben were the traitors and though she was wrong, Carley did indeed look guilty with all the "I'm gonna be the good girl that's gonna protect everybody, even though that guy must be the one who almost got everybody killed and made us leave or home".
You're mistaken my friend, there are no heroes in this game.
I'm sorry if you cannot appreciate how well written Lilly's character is and how much she brought to this story. Carley is the love interest you all fall for and despite how much you love her, she wasn't integral to the story. If you save Doug in ep.1 you'll see that I'm right.
Besides, she agrees with her dad to throw Duck out in Ep1 if you stay silent. She was all for killing a child she just met because he was a "potential danger." What did she do when Larry became a "potential danger?" While she is a great character, I hate her personality. Thought I may have gotten to see the true her after Larry died, but she lost it. And can we truly just forgive her for the murder of a group member? No matter how you hash it, it's nearly impossible to walk away from the RV scene and see Lilly as looking out for the group's well being.
Because I think Lily's a great character and that she fits well in the TWD world. I approve and support the existance or Lily in the game. But f#¥k her as a person.
I don't know, maybe you don't have much interaction with people face to face or something , people get angry and do/say things things they cannot take back in moments of anger. There's no need to build a straw man for your argument, it's pretty simple. Point out where I ever said she was right doing what she did.
I'm not exactly sure why you're telling me that people do bad stuff when they're angry. I am aware of this. You came out of nowhere and said it so I figured you're trying to justify the murder somehow. We are now on the same page. ... Unless you're still trying to do that. Under a rage blackout or not, you're still a bad person for doing something Lily did in that moment. "I was mad, Your Honor. So, are we cool?". She's bad. I'm good.
For the record, I do not have anger issues. I am not mentally unstable. And I sure as hell don't know what kind of interactions you have with people on a daily basis. I commute roughly 4-5 hours a day (train, tram and bus) so I meet and talk to a lot of people. I have not had many instances where someone gets shot in the face for calling someone a scared little girl.
It's just a shame she went a little batshit crazy for a short time and suffered a bad case of "I'MGONNAMURDERYOUCARLEY!!!"....
My only real regret, is that I wish they had waited for Episode 4 to ditch those four.....
Yeah, I agree. She had what one needs in order to be a great leader. However, the group somehow didn't help. They watched how Lilly and Kenny would argue all the time without really trying to find some sort of permanent solution. I knew things wouldn't last long enough after the meat locker scene. Something bad was bound to happen and the only way to avoid it was if the group split into smaller once right after ep. 2.
That's just suggesting that everyone in any ZA group should all be comprised of people who only care about living.
There's no way Lilly can redeem herself at all. If this is the past, she killed a member of a group because she's unstable.
Then in the future she kills Lori and Judith and follows under a sociopath dictator. Shooting the Governor doesn't redeem anything of what she did.
She was unstable that her dad died, and went paranoid and killed someone because of it. Then she's obviously still not in her right mind following someone like the Governor, and then you think she's going to stabilize after murdering a baby? Not happening, not in any world I know unless she enjoys killing like a sociopath.
Lilly /Larry had control of the group. She's the brain he's the brawn
2 males, a bleeding boy and his mother come charging in.
You dont even make introductions and her authority is challenged with Duck.
Kenny immediately starts throwing his 'I have a family to protect' weight around and apparently assumes command.
Ep2
Group rules no one into our compound
In comes Lee/Kenny and 3 stangers (unforseeable; but could be seen as a breach of rules by Lily).
Stress of rationing food is on her mind.
The 2 men who she didnt even want into the group kill her father (whether you help or not, thats how she sees it)
Now she's a female in charge of a group with 2 able bodied men, one is clearly fighting her for the leaders's spot. And she's all alone.
Ep3
On top of everything else; she suspects a traitor
'that bitch' who wont listen to her commands from Ep1 is now mouthing off to her.
Kenny has a smart remark for every decision she makes for the group (Ben on watch)
Now on top of it all, the traitor has brought the bandits right to their doorstep and caught them totally off guard-everything she was thinking is confirmed;
'no one is listening to me; we're getting lazy; this kinda shit is gonna get us all killed; we need to nip this in the bud and make an example' type thinking is probably boiling through her
Now granted, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Lily doesnt even know what honey is. She's military; she doesnt deal in small talk and civility; she expects people to follow orders (probably like she's used to). But her shining trait is that she was GROUP-oriented, unlike Kenny who wouldnt think twice turning tail and leaving them all to die as long as his family is alive.
Kenny's constant smart remarks, heard within group range and always in Lee's ear totally undermined her efforts of unifying the group under her command.
You summed it up greatly! Her character is quite complex and this clearly shows it. People try to diminish her personality because they hate her since Carley's death, the truth is she really tried to unify a broken group.
However, Lee is not necessarily her enemy. If you stick to her side, she sees you as a loyal friend and leader. Although, even if you're against her the whole time, if you help her with her dad, she'll start seeing you in a different light.
The downfall of this group begin with this moment "Kenny immediately starts throwing his 'I have a family to protect' weight around and apparently assumes command."
just because you love lilly and wanted her to have sex with Lee doesn't mean she was perfect, she was made leader by her bully father, she wouldn't listen to the concerns of her group, she was very bad at rationing food (not feeding everybody is a stupid rationing scheme) or searching for supplies and once her father was dead she was in no state to be the leader of anything, she should have gave up her role as leader to her boyfriend lee
That said, while Lee (mine), couldn't forgive her and left her on the side of the road, I still like her and hope to see her in the future, whether in the game or whatever. I plan on picking up the new novel too. I just hope her backstory in there isn't completely different. Looks like it might just completely ignore the game version of Lilly entirely.
She started off in the comics as just a small scene character, but now it seems as if she will be a main character starring in a novel, as well as the game.
DID YOU EVEN PLAY THE GAME?!
OMG!
My mind almost exploded because of your stupidity. They lacked food, so it was impossible to feed everyone, and she probably would have given the role to someone if she felt someone else could handle it. She felt no one else could hold her burden so she toughed it out, also Lee IS NOT A LEADER, HE WILL NEVER BE BECAUSE IT'S NOT IN HIS PERSONALITY, TTG didn't make him a leader type.
I hope you use the forums less because you're either a master troll or something from out of this world.
I'm surprised, especially after considering what she did to you...
And here I thought it was from the bullet. :cool:
Does this mean I'm off the hook for speaking ill of the dead?
AKA she would be the best leader of Woodbury HHAOPFRHOAEHJAEROJHAER COUGH XCOUHGHC OUHGOHUCO HUGHIU YOU DIDNT HEAR IT FROM ME
It's funny how haters though bullets could stop me.
i was just putting forward the perspective of kenny (who on my main save i am his 100% ally) , from kennys point of view they dont have food because they stayed in one place for to long, kenny should be in charge, and "just because you love lilly and wanted her to have sex with Lee doesn't mean she was perfect" was more aimed @YamiRaziel because they keep dismissing anybody's complaints as just wanting to have sex with Carley
Pretty much my thoughts! I'm glad to see there are at least a bunch of people who if not like Lilly, at least appreciate her as a well written character.
zubie, I haven't seen any real leader, yet. You know the hardest part of being a leader is that you take responsibility for everybody's mistakes. Rick (comic book) is a leader material and he's doing great but he has snapped more than Lilly. Great leaders keep trying to the right thing despite failing. There are not perfect leaders, especially in ZA.
To me personally the best thing about Lilly's character is her imperfection. It makes her much more real.
P.S thestalkinghead, if I cared about virtual e-sex scenes I would be a Carley fan
The truth is I haven't really seen a great post that describes Carley's worth as a character without including her possible romance with Lee.
I don't care if she felt like she was losing power. The power was never hers in the first place. In fact, when she keeps trying to tell everyone she's in charge, no one takes her seriously. Lilly leads by saying, "Hey everybody, I'm in charge, now here's what we're going to do." And when someone says, "Maybe that's not a good idea, let's put it up to a vote," she freaks out and then says "I'm all alone, oh woe is me, there's no one I can trust."
And stop saying that everyone "agreed" on things Lilly keeps demanding. No one agreed to her demands, she just keeps telling people that her demands are the right ones and then throws a fit when people argue with her.
Seriously, she's queen of the pity party 24/7. If the world isn't against her for "making the hard choices," everyone is trying to personally destroy her life and tear her family apart. She's a coward and a toolbag.
There's not even a word about Lilly here that I can agree with. Sorry, mate, but I don't see it that way at all.
It will be cool also if they somehow mention the RV argument... how she feels about it. If they mention it as the murder and avoid names it could apply for both Doug and Carley players.
So any thoughts?
Tricky, but possible. I would buy the book just for that.
Besides, Rick snaps all the time. He beat the shit out of Tyreese, cannibals, and plenty others.
Lilly's not 'hot'.
Carly is.
Therefore Lilly is better. Why?
Because she can get fans purely because she isn't a "love interest" for Lee, and doesn't have big tits and seems to like Lee no matter what he does. In the game, I always sided with the person who had the most reasonable argument so when Kenny talks about murdering Larry - when there's still a chance he could be alive is just outright insane. Besides, if he was going to drop a saltlick on his head surely if Larry were to reanimate, Kenny could just do it there and then, or Lee could spam Q, A, or X.
Also, may I add, you have the option to say to Kenny "What if that were your family?" He says that nothing will happen to them.
Welp. Look what happened.
Lilly never said that Larry would never turn into a zombie ever, she simply said he was fine.