[SPOILERS]Ben's character and deeds

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  • edited September 2012
    After his reaction about the flash light and finding the stolen supplies in the drain thing I knew immediately it was Ben. No one else in the group would back down to the bandits without telling the rest of the group what was going on. This is why I defended Carley all the way through Lilly's accusations. I dislike Ben for not confessing because maybe, Carley wouldn't be dead?
  • edited September 2012
    I didn't really think much about it, Lilly was the only one who really seemed to care that much about who stole the food- especially after all the stuff that went down (ma bro doug and ma other bro's family dyin'!). I didn't really care who stole the food anymore. When Ben told me I was just like "Why'd you have to tell me that, it doesn't matter anymore." Still, at least I know in future not to trust the guy.
  • edited September 2012
    I agree with OP, I didn't really care who stole the supplies and when Ben finally admitted it I was too emotionally drained to be angry.
  • edited September 2012
    If TTG wanted to be ballsy, here's what they should have done.

    If you admit to Ben at the camp you are a killer AND you don't accuse him outright in the woods, he confesses to the crime. Then you vote if he stays or not. This would help give a sense of character development in Ben and respect the player's agency in the game.

    The Walking Dead is starting to become very predictable with its unspoken rule 1/2 person dying per episode. I felt like TTG was playing too safe in episode 3 by wrestling control out of the player's hands to off characters and conveniently giving you control of decisions that don't change the story.
  • edited September 2012
    RIPCarley wrote: »
    If TTG wanted to be ballsy, here's what they should have done.

    If you admit to Ben at the camp you are a killer AND you don't accuse him outright in the woods, he confesses to the crime. Then you vote if he stays or not. This would help give a sense of character development in Ben and respect the player's agency in the game.

    The Walking Dead is starting to become very predictable with its unspoken rule 1/2 person dying per episode. I felt like TTG was playing too safe in episode 3 by wrestling control out of the player's hands to off characters and conveniently giving you control of decisions that don't change the story.

    some might consider your id tag a bit of a spoiler...for those who are new to the game..

    ttg played safe in ep3 ?? wow if ep3 is 'safe' i dread to think what is moving in your mind...

    i dunno if you've played many 'point n click action games' before but control on lee is always limited.. this is clear in ep1 and ep2...
  • edited September 2012
    I don't know, sometimes I feel most people overreact... I mean, everytime people don't like someone in the game they just feel like that person deserves death, c'mon, people hated Duck (a freaking kid) just because he was a bit annoying, and actually blamed him for killing Shawn, instead of blaming whoever let a kid up on the tractor. What Ben did was not his fault, people complain about him not telling the group and blame the bandit's attack on him.

    First off, why would anyone in the group (except for Lee) give two shits about Ben's friend being held captive by the bandits (which he didn't know was a lie)? Do you remember how Ben and the teacher were greeted by two people yelling at Lee and Kenny for bringing more mouths to feed?

    Plus, Lilly was clearly about to snap and Ben says she scared the crap out of him, he certainly thought that if he had told her, she would've kicked him out of the group or killed him if people were against that idea (just like she tried outside the RV).

    And also, how could the bandit attack be his fault? If anything, he just delayed it a little bit, it was bound to happen sooner or later, the fact there was a deal just meant the bandits could take advantage of the group for a while before they raided it. If there was no deal, they would've just simply kept attacking the motel.

    But heck, maybe that's just me. I couldn't even blame Lilly for shooting Doug (I actually almost cried at that part), my favorite character, the only one that tried to keep the peace without violence along with Lee, and the last person on the group that would have deserved a death like that. What Lilly did was way worse than what Ben did, and if I couldn't be mad at her, I would never be mad at him.

    Oh well, I've written enough, let me know what else you people think...
  • edited September 2012
    Either you saved Carley or Doug. These great characters shall be avenged. Yeah, Lilly killed them, BUT Ben was giving the extra stuff to the bandits, wich caused the whole thing.

    These were great characters, ones who shouldn't be forgotten. Ben, a stupid little teenager who is more scared of everything then a 12 year old.

    Please, by joining this thread, you 100% guarantee that you WILL kill Ben, at the first time you get.

    You have my word. Ben is already dead to me! I don't care how awful or sorry for Ben TTG makes me feel I'm pulling the trigger!

    So let it be written so let it be done.
  • edited September 2012
    How the fuck can you blame Ben so much? He's just a kid who thought he was protecting his friends/the group.
    Of course he should have told the group about the deal, but he was also dead afraid of Lilly, kicking his ass out of the group after his confession. So he did that what many kids would have done, try to hide it.
    Sure you may argue that in a ZA theres no time and place for this childish behaviour, but still it wasn't that of a big deal. After the scavenge we had a lot of stuff, we surely could have survived the loss of some meds.

    If anybody is to blame, it's Lilly. She literally shot Carley in the face. I mean right in cold blood in the face. She didn't even show any remorse after it. The group was already small, why would a rational person decimate it more? The heck why would a rational person shoot sb. who wasn't even looking at him.
  • edited September 2012
    Do you really want to kill Ben just because of Carley, even though she defended Ben?
    And Lilly killed Carley in cold blood without regrets, she interrogated her first in the RV as well.

    Doug saved Ben from being shot and got himself killed instead, both of their deaths would be in vein, if you decide to kill Ben.

    I'm just sick of all this "Kill Ben" nonsense because of Carley, it may be a game but you all treat it like Carley's the only human being around here.

    I'm sorry, don't get me wrong I wanted to kill Ben at first too because of Doug, but you have to think hard about this, was Ben really the culprit of all this, or was Lilly's judgement the culprit, we were being attacked by the bandits before the episode started, you saw the arrows, we should've left the motel, but Lilly wanted to stay.

    Even if he didn't tell the group about giving bandits supplies, it was just medicine, Lilly shouldn't have gotten all paranoid, we got more from the drug store anyways.

    I know we all have a connection with each character, but you can't just kill Ben because you think it was his fault, and didn't get Carley as your romance.
  • edited September 2012
    Seath wrote: »
    How the fuck can you blame Ben so much? He's just a kid who thought he was protecting his friends/the group.
    Of course he should have told the group about the deal, but he was also dead afraid of Lilly, kicking his ass out of the group after his confession. So he did that what many kids would have done, try to hide it.
    Sure you may argue that in a ZA theres no time and place for this childish behaviour, but still it wasn't that of a big deal. After the scavenge we had a lot of stuff, we surely could have survived the loss of some meds.

    If anybody is to blame, it's Lilly. She literally shot Carley in the face. I mean right in cold blood in the face. She didn't even show any remorse after it. The group was already small, why would a rational person decimate it more? The heck why would a rational person shoot sb. who wasn't even looking at him.

    I have read this and other comments where Ben's youth and inexperience should be taken into consideration....I understand. There were extenuating circumstances that affected Ben and his actions that should be taken into consideration...I understand. That someone else is to blame for any deaths that ocured....I understand.

    Ben is a traitor. He committed the heinous crime of treason at a time when his community needed him the most and had placed special trust in him (you saw him on guard duty with a loaded weapon right?).

    In my game, Ben will be executed at the earliest possible moment.
  • edited September 2012
    NeonBlade wrote: »
    For some reason. Cretins like Ben always seem to survive.

    This. He'll either scamper away during a fight leaving someone else die or freezes up and causes the death of another.
  • edited September 2012
    Viser wrote: »
    First off, why would anyone in the group (except for Lee) give two shits about Ben's friend being held captive by the bandits (which he didn't know was a lie)? Do you remember how Ben and the teacher were greeted by two people yelling at Lee and Kenny for bringing more mouths to feed?

    Because he was using supplies others risked their lives to get in order to keep the group alive, not some bandits with a story in the woods. If he wants to use the group's supplies he should've had the group's permission. ESPECIALLY since he brings absolutely nothing to the table. If he told the group earlier, they could have handled it or at the very least, been prepared for that raid- he directly lead to the death of Doug/Carley and indirectly caused Duck's death which then caused Kat's.
  • edited September 2012
    Xarne wrote: »
    Because he was using supplies others risked their lives to get in order to keep the group alive, not some bandits with a story in the woods. If he wants to use the group's supplies he should've had the group's permission. ESPECIALLY since he brings absolutely nothing to the table. If he told the group earlier, they could have handled it or at the very least, been prepared for that raid- he directly lead to the death of Doug/Carley and indirectly caused Duck's death which then caused Kat's.

    One thing I don't get is how did he directly lead to Doug/Carley's death. Carley died from ticking off Lilly and Doug took a bullet for Ben. Ben in no way held a gun to them nor did he call out either as being a traitor. Lilly went overboard and hell even with the group's obvious protest against prosecuting any of them she went through with it.(My Lee didn't want either punished) This should've let her know that we didn't want to deal with this situation at that moment. Lilly wanted to kill someone she wanted it so bad, she just used the whole Traitor thing as her advantage to murder someone and get no consequences(evidenced by her stating she did what was best). And it failed.

    I'm not gonna blame Ben for anything that happened in Episode 3 because Lilly going crazy wasn't his fault, Lilly's desire to punish someone with death wasn't his fault, and Ben/Carley's actions certainly weren't Ben's fault. If anything Ben's main fault was giving supplies that no one really knew was missing. Hell the only person who would've needed the drugs was Kenny and he didn't seem to give a hoot about it.

    Like I stated before I won't kill Ben nor do I think he needs penance in death for anything that happened. He was only a pawn in Lilly's desire to kill in revenge for what her father her did and refuse to punish him for it.
  • edited September 2012
    First chance i get, i will kill him!
  • edited September 2012
    One thing I don't get is how did he directly lead to Doug/Carley's death.
    If he had told the group about the bandits from the start; they never would have been taken off-guard like that.
    He was conducting his own little deal with the group's supplies and when it went sour they all got ambushed.
    But more importantly, if he had manned up and confessed at the side of the RV after the raid, Doug /Carley would be alive right now.
    How do you not see him as the direct cause of their death? Both of them died protecting him. Doug even more so than Carley.
  • edited September 2012
    How can I blame Ben?

    Because the group got cut in half because of his actions and silence.

    There is no "kid" - like the crazy hobo says.... There's only alive and dead....
  • edited September 2012
    DreadMagus wrote: »
    How can I blame Ben?

    Because the group got cut in half because of his actions and silence.

    There is no "kid" - like the crazy hobo says.... There's only alive and dead....

    That crazy hobo has lost touch with any shred of humanity he had before the apocalypse. Do you really want to follow his ideals and mindset? He may have been right about some things, but he's woefully wrong about others.

    I just don't understand why you're all so mad. Do you think a similar situation wouldn't have arisen without Ben's dicking around? Lilly had gone off the deep end and would have used anything to justify losing her shit.

    At the end of the day, though, who do you really blame? Ben had to placate the bandits; if we had moved on like Kenny said we should, he wouldn't have had to. Then again, if Kenny hadn't killed Larry prematurely, Lilly wouldn't have completely lost her mind and murdered Carley. But then again, if Larry hadn't been such an unjustified dickwad, Kenny might have shown more hesitance in killing him. BUT THEN, if there hadn't been a zombie apocalypse, Larry never would have --

    Where does it end?

    The answer I wanted to give Ben (but was incapable of giving him because of the weirdly narrow dialogue options in some portions of the game - seriously, some of the responses I want to give in certain situations are never on there, despite being very common threads of thought that many other people I know have discussed wanting to say) was, "I don't care. What's done is done, and nothing is going to change that. The past is the past, let's leave it there and move on." Maybe tell him to be a bit more forthcoming and open, from now on, to avoid mistakes like this in the future.

    I won't kill him - but I suspect he'll take care of himself, anyway. My guess is that he'll sacrifice himself for somebody else, trying to make amends for what he's done - if you didn't notice, he was cradling his head in his arms against the railing of a moving train, his face completely contorted in mental agony. He's a complete guilty wreck, and I don't think he'll ever be able to forgive himself for what happened.

    The lack of human sympathy in threads like these, though, kind of astounds me.
  • edited September 2012
    Poor Ben, dumb shit. Hopefully he gets the opportunity to grow up.
  • edited September 2012
    John W. wrote: »
    Ben had to placate the bandits;
    Why? And why in silence? He's shady and weak.
  • edited September 2012
    Why are people defending Ben so much? He caused all this! if he would have told the group about his deal maybe they would have understood and helped him, But no he didn't and he didn't tell Lilly so he let Carley/Doug die. I will Kill that bastard! as far as im concerned he is a traitor
  • edited September 2012
    If you want to survive, you have to be ruthless. There's no place for a Ben in that equation.
  • edited September 2012
    Ben was just a dumb kid who handled a delicate situation with all the grace of a gorilla. Do I like him? Hell no. Will I kill him as soon as he turns his back to me? Again, no. Lilly let her emotions get the best of her and we all saw the result of that. If we kill Ben out of vengeance, not only has Doug/Carley died in vain but we've become no better than Lilly.

    We can't turn on our own now, especially with so few of us left. Everyone in the group, Clem, Ben, Chuck,everyone will have to step up if anyone wants to see that boat, and stepping up doesn't include revenge against our own in my book. Of course, if he fails to step up it'll probably be his cowardice at that moment that gets him killed. He proves that I can trust him to have my back, and I'll have his.
  • edited September 2012
    Rock114 wrote: »
    Ben was just a dumb kid who handled a delicate situation with all the grace of a gorilla. Do I like him? Hell no. Will I kill him as soon as he turns his back to me? Again, no. Lilly let her emotions get the best of her and we all saw the result of that. If we kill Ben out of vengeance, not only has Doug/Carley died in vain but we've become no better than Lilly.

    We can't turn on our own now, especially with so few of us left. Everyone in the group, Clem, Ben, Chuck,everyone will have to step up if anyone wants to see that boat, and stepping up doesn't include revenge against our own in my book. Of course, if he fails to step up it'll probably be his cowardice at that moment that gets him killed. He proves that I can trust him to have my back, and I'll have his.

    Then you are nicer then i am.
  • edited September 2012
    But no he didn't and he didn't tell Lilly so he let Carley/Doug die. I will Kill that bastard! as far as im concerned he is a traitor

    How can he "let" Carley/Doug die, if it was Lilly who was holding the gun?
    Everybody in the group was against starting a witch hunt, still Lilly played judge, jury and executioner. I guess he foresaw Lillys mental instability, but who the hell would have known, that her triggerfinger was that itchy?
  • edited September 2012
    He could have fessed up - and possibly allow the situation to be defused.
  • edited September 2012
    Or Lilly shouldn't have put a friggin bullet in Carley's head. Look that's the thing with these who's guilty chain.
    Some could start blaming Kenny for Carley's dead, because he bashed Larry's skull and thus making Lilly a ticking timebomb.
  • edited September 2012
    DreadMagus wrote: »
    He could have fessed up - and possibly allow the situation to be defused.

    Yeah, let's tell the lady that has locked herself in a room since her father's death that you are the one that was giving supplies to the bandits. Let's not forget that she and everyone else is armed. Yup, situation diffused!
  • edited September 2012
    Seath wrote: »
    Or Lilly shouldn't have put a friggin bullet in Carley's head. Look that's the thing with these who's guilty chain.
    Some could start blaming Kenny for Carley's dead, because he bashed Larry's skull and thus making Lilly a ticking timebomb.

    That definitely started her mental train on a quick trip to freak-out-land, but it was the theft (caused by you know who) and the loss of her new home that sent her off the rails.
  • edited September 2012
    He pretty much is the cause of all this but in the end I just can't find myself to hate Ben, Hes young and stupid.

    That doesn't mean I'll trust him I'll always know what he did and have a suspicion of him but in the end I'll save him if I had to.

    While Ben did make a deal with the Bandits he didn't do so to hurt the group and the one who who killed Carly/Doug was Lilly. Ducks and Katjas blood though is on his hands and if Kenny ever finds out hes a dead man.

    So while I don't hate Ben hes not someone I'll give any important jobs to and will be stuck to the worst jobs and is not to be trusted until he redeems himself.
  • edited September 2012
    whoa dude, dont you know Carley is dead? You HAVE to hate Ben. It's like, the law now

    He doesnt have to die but he cant stay in my group, cant trust him.
  • edited September 2012
    I felt sorry for him when he was on the train. He knows it's all his fault. He'll probably do something stupid, trying to earn our trust, or something.
  • edited September 2012
    Am I the only one who thought the chalk marking was some kind of sign for hitting the camp? I believe ben was setting the camp up for a fall and only looking out for himself.
  • edited September 2012
    Am I the only one who thought the chalk marking was some kind of sign for hitting the camp? I believe ben was setting the camp up for a fall and only looking out for himself.

    You know I'm not to sure what the X mark meant... I guess there are a lot of unanswered questions about the whole thing.
  • edited September 2012
    Am I the only one who thought the chalk marking was some kind of sign for hitting the camp? I believe ben was setting the camp up for a fall and only looking out for himself.

    My money is on the chalk mark meaning that the supplies are there for the taking in the vent on the exterior side of the motor inn.
  • edited September 2012
    My money is on the chalk mark meaning that the supplies are there for the taking in the vent on the exterior side of the motor inn.

    kinda obvious really :rolleyes:
  • edited September 2012
    DreadMagus wrote: »
    If you want to survive, you have to be ruthless. There's no place for a Ben in that equation.

    I want you on my ZA team when it all hits the fan...




    and that eyepatch!
  • edited September 2012
    When Ben told me that he did it, I was overcome with anger so I threatened him. Immediately after, I felt a huge pang of guilt. I don't even know why.
    I just kinda felt bad about how guilty he felt.

    I don't think we'll have to worry about having the choice to kill him in the next episode though. Considering what he says to you about walkers when he's on watch on top of the train, he might not be around much longer. Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing remains to be seen.
  • edited September 2012
    When Ben told me that he did it, I was overcome with anger so I threatened him. Immediately after, I felt a huge pang of guilt. I don't even know why.
    I just kinda felt bad about how guilty he felt.

    I don't think we'll have to worry about having the choice to kill him in the next episode though. Considering what he says to you about walkers when he's on watch on top of the train, he might not be around much longer. Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing remains to be seen.

    How guilty for Ben were you feeling when Clem had a shotgun up against the back of her head?
  • edited September 2012
    Ben should of came to Lilly or Lee and told them he was being shaken down by the bandits immediately. Ben is an idiot. I dont care if hes a teen and hes scared. He should of trusted the leaders of the group, and maybe that would of convinced Lilly to get the hell outta dodge and everyone would still be alive. That being said, if theres an option to get rid of Ben or to kill him yourself, Im taking it. I would have tossed him over the rail if that was an option.
  • edited September 2012
    Xarne wrote: »
    How guilty for Ben were you feeling when Clem had a shotgun up against the back of her head?

    No, no. I felt guilty about threatening him.

    I'd been trying to be rational and compassionate to almost every character so far, but when I found out it was Ben I just snapped straight to the angry option. Up until then I even had an awful feeling that it actually was Carley, which is why I was so angered to find out it was him.
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