So, Cheeseness as the only one who understood reason (b) for the proposed thread title change, eh? You can do better.
Anthony would surely disagree with what this thread has become. Reading the original post in detail, he doesn't make the mistake to pin inappropriate behavior on every TWD fan; and in fact he outs himself as a fan of TWD himself - the game at least. He doesn't insult, he pleads. The clientele he addresses and finds unbearable is a rather specific and small one: those who flood blog posts with misplaced TWD related comments.
Upon what do you base that assumption? It's factually incorrect.
It's interesting to see how dismissive many new people seem to be of Telltale's previous endeavours and community.
It's not assumption, it's comedic exaggeration (a very blatant exaggeration too, do you take everything with such stonefaced literalism?) to show the huge numbers of people The Walking brought in, plus how TellTale's other great games weren't exactly in danger of mainstream attention.
So, Cheeseness as the only one who understood reason (b) for the proposed thread title change, eh? You can do better.
Anthony would surely disagree with what this thread has become. Reading the original post in detail, he doesn't make the mistake to pin inappropriate behavior on every TWD fan; and in fact he outs himself as a fan of TWD himself - the game at least. He doesn't insult, he pleads. The clientele he addresses and finds unbearable is a rather specific and small one: those who flood blog posts with misplaced TWD related comments.
You're making him out to be way more civil and rational than he actually is. He calls the fans huge jackasses and says they are bitching. That's why this thread got flamed with hate. Read this:
it seems like the game is bringing in a lot of people who, what's the nicest way to say this...aren't interested in being part of the community.
You're unhappy with the release schedule? It'd be nice if we could at least keep that stuff contained to a single "release date bitching" thread.
What would you think if, the next time Telltale did a Walking Dead-related blog post, I went "Don't care, where's Sam and Max Season 4?" Or how about I go into every single thread you make and say "Don't care, go buy my new book?" You'd probably think I was a huge jackass, and you'd be correct. Since apparently apathy needs to be broadcasted, I really don't care that you don't care.
Fine, "TWD is bringing Trolls and People Bitching"
He calls the fans "a huge jackass" and says they are "bitching" indirectly. He's being super passive aggressive, which makes it more annoying to people.
Don't mistake his vagnuess for being rational and not pointing out all fans. His aim is set at all the new fans brought by TWD. He's part of a old school civilized TT fanbase (that never existed).
He even said this thread is a rant. His whole goal was to talk down on people. You can't off topic on a post that was made just to rant. Can you? I don't think so.
He calls the fans huge jackasses and says they are bitching.
Wow, if anybody is misrepresenting the OP, it's you.
He specifically says that he would be a "jackass" if he exhibited a particular type of behaviour. At no point does he say that all of the new people that have come in are practicing this behaviour. He says that "it seems like the game is bringing in a lot of people who, what's the nicest way to say this...aren't interested in being part of the community," which is not to say that all new people are behaving like this.
As somebody who's been vaguely present member of the Telltale community over the past 5 years, I feel that it's up to me to correct you in your false belief that things weren't any better before. The kind of behaviour that the OP is talking about is uncivilised, and we had none of it (certainly not of the voracity that we've seen recently) before the Universal deal started to bear fruit.
It's not assumption, it's comedic exaggeration (a very blatant exaggeration too, do you take everything with such stonefaced literalism?) to show the huge numbers of people The Walking brought in, plus how TellTale's other great games weren't exactly in danger of mainstream attention.
It's the internet, this is a fairly heated issue, etc.. There are more reasons to take things literally in this conversation than not.
Either way, having a large number of mainstream fans in itself isn't something I care enough about to be for or against. It doesn't seem to have impacted very heavily on the quality of games that are being made, so the only real difference is the ways in which the dynamics of the community have changed (this includes the ways in which Telltale interact with their fans, just as much as the behaviours of the fans themselves), and as this thread has shown, there have been some pretty negative outcomes.
Anthony would surely disagree with what this thread has become.
I think it's a pretty tough issue to get proper discussion on. It's pretty close to home for newcomers who're worried about feeling alienated, and it's hard for those of us who've been grossly offended by recent events to stay objective too.
He specifically says that he would be a "jackass" if he exhibited a particular type of behaviour.
So, let me ask you this then. If he would be a Jackass for exhibiting that behavior, does that make a person that does exhibit that behavior a jackass? Yes. And who does he say is doing that? New people to the forums brought by the TWD. So, I think I was right.
At no point does he say that all of the new people that have come in are practicing this behaviour. He says that "it seems like the game is bringing in a lot of people who, what's the nicest way to say this...aren't interested in being part of the community," which is not to say that all new people are behaving like this.
You're splitting hairs. Fine, not "all," but what is "a lot"? Most? 99%? It's vague but it's clear it's not favorable to new people to the forums.
The kind of behaviour that the OP is talking about is uncivilised, and we had none of it (certainly not of the voracity that we've seen recently).
Do you count calling people Jackass and saying bitching is civilized? And he's been here a while.
Thanks for setting me straight, or whatever self-righteous thing you think you're doing, but several other members have contradicted your testimony. If this were a court case based on testimony alone you'd be losing badly.
Nobody seems to agree with you, even among people that have been here just as long or longer, and you're not acknowledging that. You should really just drop that point.
Anthony is using a "walk in my shoes" communicative strategy here.
On the one hand, that allows him to insult himself as the "huge jackass" if he were to apply the same whole blog & forum release date topic universal all covering nougat spread. Now, I agree that this rhetoric finesse doesn't acquit him of potentially insulting people. But compared to what I have become used to in the past six months, it's a damn fine start. Maybe Anthony is indeed far less 'civil and rational' than I 'made him', but that would be in huge part due to the fact that I had half a year of continuously lowered expectations by now. And I STILL say that a few loud and offensive voices are the problem, not a crowd.
On the other hand, Anthony explicitly narrows the group that he feels "pissed off" by. He shifts his anger towards the blog; he shifts it towards a very special kind of comment. I would even assume that of the people on the blog who are troubling us most, only a very small minority even frequents the forum. I don't see the aggressive Telltale blog commenters and the Telltale forum community as mutually exclusive groups, but I dare say they seldom intersect. As an extension of Anthony's theory, I would indeed say that some people are so opposed to 'being part of the community' that they don't even register. This being the youtube thumbs-down approach to commenting; this being an attempt at keeping the conversation entirely one-sided for fear of a contrary opinion.
Right now, people get insulted and stalked on the blog. Whatever you might think of the ones stalked, we would certainly agree that this has_to_stop.
Look, I can prove this thread is about talking shit.
Let's assume the best case. He's pleading for some people to stop trolling blog post and forums.
Now, who would disagree with that? Has anybody disagreed with that? No. It's not even debatle or up for discussion. WE ALL AGREE ON THAT.
What we all don't agree on, and have been discussing, is if TWD fans are trolling "huge jackasses" and that love "bitching," which has cause this heated debate.
You don't have to take my word. Prove me wrong by find JUST ONE POST where someone seriously disagree that people shouldn't troll and spam blogs and the forums. One. You can't do it.
Now there are several post talking about his derogatory behavior and language. It's littered throughout the thread. In fact, it's all of them, except the post were people agree with him, which EVERYBODY does.
Thus, I prove my point. And the title should be "TWD fans are trolls" b/c that's what this thread comes down to.
So, let me ask you this then. If he would be a Jackass for exhibiting that behavior, does that make a person that does exhibit that behavior a jackass? Yes. And who does he say is doing that? New people to the forums brought by the TWD. So, I think I was right.
I reread the original post and thought it was pretty clear the he's referring to two subgroups; people who post inappropriate comments about TWD in unrelated blog entries and a cross-section of people who relentlessly post/create threads kvetching about release dates. He was also careful to note in his post that he believed (as do I) that TT needs to adopt better communication strategies regarding release dates, bugs and other related matters.
You're splitting hairs. Fine, not "all," but what is "a lot"? Most? 99%? It's vague but it's clear it's not favorable to new people to the forums.
See my reply above. Personally, I see the group he's referring to as a vocal minority, and I find them incredibly irritating myself. As a somewhat new member to these forums, that -- and the bizarre levels of hostility that I see almost everywhere in TWD discussion forums -- put me off from posting at all.
Do you count calling people Jackass and saying bitching is civilized? And he's been here a while.
The jackass thing was an example he was using to illustrate his point, and bitching is a synonym for complaining. The people he is referring to complain. I don't see what the problem is here. It's accurate.
Thanks for setting me straight, or whatever self-righteous thing you think you're doing, but several other members have contradicted your testimony. If this were a court case based on testimony alone you'd be losing badly. Nobody seems to agree with you, even among people that have been here just as long or longer, and you're not acknowledging that. You should really just drop that point.
I absolutely agree 100% with him, and I'm sure many people do too. These people are probably hesitant to respond, as I was, because they're wary of getting verbally attacked in these forums, which has happened to me before here.
Anthony is using a "walk in my shoes" communicative strategy here.
On the one hand, that allows him to insult himself as the "huge jackass" if he were to apply the same whole blog & forum release date topic universal all covering nougat spread. Now, I agree that this rhetoric finesse doesn't acquit him of potentially insulting people. But compared to what I have become used to in the past six months, it's a damn fine start. Maybe Anthony is indeed far less 'civil and rational' than I 'made him', but that would be in huge part due to the fact that I had half a year of continuously lowered expectations by now. And I STILL say that a few loud and offensive voices are the problem, not a crowd.
On the other hand, Anthony explicitly narrows the group that he feels "pissed off" by. He shifts his anger towards the blog; he shifts it towards a very special kind of comment. I would even assume that of the people on the blog who are troubling us most, only a very small minority even frequents the forum. I don't see the aggressive Telltale blog commenters and the Telltale forum community as mutually exclusive groups, but I dare say they seldom intersect. As an extension of Anthony's theory, I would indeed say that some people are so opposed to 'being part of the community' that they don't even register. This being the youtube thumbs-down approach to commenting; this being an attempt at keeping the conversation entirely one-sided for fear of a contrary opinion.
Right now, people get insulted and stalked on the blog. Whatever you might think of the ones stalked, we would certainly agree that this has_to_stop.
Everybody agrees with him. Nobody I've seen has disagree with Anthony. Have you seen someone that disagree with him so far? So why is this thread so busy?
He's using a terrible communication strategy called passive aggressiveness. Big Anthony has insulted many people, and maybe they read him wrong, but that is what is happening. Regardless of his intent, it's a fact many people took offense to what he said. Anybody can just go and count the post to prove it.
He seems to be personally attacking new fans and that's what you would expect from a rant, which is what he says he's doing.
What rant is a rational, thought out theory? None. That's why their rants.
I think he's getting way more credit than he deserves. Just my opinion. And I'm done with this thread. lol
You're splitting hairs. Fine, not "all," but what is "a lot"? Most? 99%? It's vague but it's clear it's not favorable to new people to the forums.
Yeah, sorry. That's what you're choosing to believe, not what's there.
I'm happy to say that offering a casual fictional insult that might be misinterpreted, which is not even remotely hateful (no matter which way you twist it), is totally more civilised than the kind of abhorrent behaviour we're talking about.
Thanks for setting me straight, or whatever self-righteous thing you think you're doing, but several other members have contradicted your testimony. If this were a court case based on testimony alone you'd be losing badly.
Cool story bro. I submit the comment history of every blog on the Telltale site as well as every thread in the other forums as evidence. Let me know if you still have concerns after you've read them.
Right now, people get insulted and stalked on the blog. Whatever you might think of the ones stalked, we would certainly agree that this has_to_stop.
The real lingering question is how to go about stopping that behaviour. It's sad but true that having a thread to talk about it in this subforum isn't really changing things.
These people are probably hesitant to respond, as I was, because they're wary of getting verbally attacked in these forums, which has happened to me before here.
And this is the heart of the issue. Nobody, new or old, deserves to feel like that.
I reread the original post and thought it was pretty clear the he's referring to two subgroups; people who post inappropriate comments about TWD in unrelated blog entries and a cross-section of people who relentlessly post/create threads kvetching about release dates. He was also careful to note in his post that he believed (as do I) that TT needs to adopt better communication strategies regarding release dates, bugs and other related matters.
See my reply above. Personally, I see the group he's referring to as a vocal minority, and I find them incredibly irritating myself. As a somewhat new member to these forums, that -- and the bizarre levels of hostility that I see almost everywhere in TWD discussion forums -- put me off from posting at all.
The jackass thing was an example he was using to illustrate his point, and bitching is a synonym for complaining. The people he is referring to complain. I don't see what the problem is here. It's accurate.
I absolutely agree 100% with him, and I'm sure many people do too. These people are probably hesitant to respond, as I was, because they're wary of getting verbally attacked in these forums, which has happened to me before here.
Everything you said is a very favorable interpretation but you haven't pointed to specific passages as evidence. What do you base your interpretation on? You can say it's perfectly clear but it's better if you actually demonstrate it is b/c all the angry post show it isn't at all clear. The evidence is heavily in my favor at this point.
As far as the insults, let me demonstrate how it's insulting. Don't take this personal. It's simply a demonstration. I don't mean any of it.
What would you think if, the next time someone posted in this thread, I went "The jackass thing was an example he was using to illustrate his point, and bitching is a synonym for complaining. The people he is referring to complain. I don't see what the problem is here. It's accurate."
You'd probably think I was a huge jackass, and you'd be correct.
I don't know how you would read that, but I (and I imagine most people) would take that as an insult. You're being called a huge jackass in a very passive aggressive manor. I apologize if you actually took offense to that but if you did then you'd know how others felt reading that.
Not like it matters. You don't have to find it insulting for it to be insulting. The sheer number of post about it is proof enough it's insulting, even if you don't think it is. What do you say to that?
I'm glad someone has finally agreed with him the pre-walking dead forums. The overwhelming majority still disagree. You can dismiss it as fear but I think most people just actually disagree with you two. lol
You don't have to take my word. Prove me wrong by find JUST ONE POST [...]
Thus, I prove my point.
What you are attempting to do right now is not to interpret the original post, but to decide its meaning based on the answers to this post. And that while the original post is still there and unedited! You can't "prove" anything with those other posts. They're not best evidence. They're hearsay!
Vainamoinen, as a moderator of modest vintage (meant affectionately, of course ) who has a finger somewhere on the Telltale community's pulse, can you see any positive ways that the behaviour being discussed can be reduced?
The majority of what? People who've posted in this thread? It's immensely clear that the majority of people visiting this subforum haven't been around long enough to have any valuable perspective on the history of Telltale's community.
Also, didn't you say you were done with this thread?
Yeah, sorry. That's what you're choosing to believe, not what's there.
I'm happy to say that offering a casual fictional insult that might be misinterpreted, which is not even remotely hateful (no matter which way you twist it), is totally more civilised than the kind of abhorrent behaviour we're talking about.
Cool story bro. I submit the comment history of every blog on the Telltale site as well as every thread in the other forums as evidence. Let me know if you still have concerns after you've read them.
I'm sorry, what is in there than? What did he mean by "a lot"? IF I'm wrong than correct me.
The whole comments? Like the ones that got shut down on the comic strips? That's your evidence? LOL
You know me, or any sane person, isn't going to go reading all the forum post. There's trolling all over. It's the nature of the internet. No doubt. And mods clean things up so you can't go back too far anyway. Really, testimony is the strongest evidence and so far it's against you, bro.
Look, I, and everybody else, agrees with Anthony. Show me one person that hasn't.
And then explain to me why you have to interpret it as an insult for it to be an insult. Several people felt insulted and that's a fact and you're not responding to that. You just ignore that HUGE fact.
You're kind of in the minority that doesn't think he's being insulting, yet you're confident you're right. Maybe you are but when it comes to interpreting language the majority does rule.
Communication only has meaning when we mostly agree on it. It's how you can read and understand this paragraph.
The whole comments? Like the ones that got shut down on the comic strips? That's your evidence? LOL
Actually, that's a perfect example. The people offering disparaging feedback on the comics were doing so in appropriate places, and from what I recall (and my memory of it is likely to be a lot better than yours), it was all comparatively tame.
All right, let us assume that. Because I think he does!
What you are attempting to do right now is not to interpret the original post, but to decide its meaning based on the answers to this post. And that while the original post is still there and unedited! You can't "prove" anything with those other posts. They're not best evidence. They're hearsay!
Hearsay is third person testimony. You can read direct testimony from other people.
But how can we can we communicate unless a majority agrees on meaning? And the majority is saying he's being insulting to new fans.
Let's take German and English to demonstrate what disagreeing on meaning can create. In German, dick means thick. Rot mean red. Bald means soon. das kissen means pillow. Fast means almost. I could go on. There's tons.
Now, a German person can interpret it in their own way, and that's legitimate, but it's a disaster waiting to happen when talking in English b/c the majority have a different meaning for those words.
In the same way, we can be generous and say he wasn't being insulting but the majority clearly sees it that way and that's what matters.
Actually, that's a perfect example. The people offering disparaging feedback on the comics were doing so in appropriate places, and from what I recall (and my memory of it is likely to be a lot better than yours), it was all comparatively tame.
Yeah, it was so tame it got shut down. That makes total sense.
That will show them. The nerve of those people and their tame comments. Shut it down!
You've really proved me wrong. I can't argue with your excellent memory. lol
Yeah, it was so tame it got shut down. That makes total sense.
That will show them. The nerve of those people and their tame comments. Shut it down!
You've really proved me wrong. I can't argue with your excellent memory. lol
Speaking of interpreting language, do you understand the meaning of the word "comparative"? There was nothing in those comic comments that came near the sort of downright offensive and abusive behaviour, but the point is that it was contained to where it belonged.
I'm also picking up a slightly derisive vibe off you. Are you aware that it makes you look foolish? It's clear that as you haven't read the things you're making comments on, you have no basis for the opinions and attitudes you're expressing right now.
Everything you said is a very favorable interpretation but you haven't pointed to specific passages as evidence. What do you base your interpretation on? You can say it's perfectly clear but it's better if you actually demonstrate it is b/c all the angry post show it isn't at all clear. The evidence is heavily in my favor at this point.
I unfortunately can't provide you with empirical evidence on one part of this (where I interpret his post as being about people who post all-caps, shouty, relentless threads about release dates) as that's all based on personal observations I've made, making that part a wholly personal interpretation. I still stand by it, but it's not something I can prove scientifically unless the OP returns and clarifies. The other part -- people invading the blogs -- is a matter of public record, though. He says it in the original post.
And dude, all due respect, I went through this entire thread and saw maybe three or four people who were put off by the thread title or personally insulted. I may have missed a few, or those posts may have been deleted, but if you're gonna say stuff like "the evidence is heavily in my favor", you should also point to specific passages instead of letting the burden of proof rest solely on me.
Not like it matters. You don't have to find it insulting for it to be insulting. The sheer number of post about it is proof enough it's insulting, even if you don't think it is. What do you say to that?
No, I get that people can be insulted by people who don't actually mean to be insulting. But I don't see a sheer number of posts.
I'm glad someone has finally agreed with him the pre-walking dead forums. The overwhelming majority still disagree. You can dismiss it as fear but I think most people just actually disagree with you two. lol
That's cool. I don't think I'm dismissing anything -- I'm being honest about why I was reluctant to start posting on these forums. I can't be the only one.
I unfortunately can't provide you with empirical evidence on one part of this (where I interpret his post as being about people who post all-caps, shouty, relentless threads about release dates) as that's all based on personal observations I've made, making that part a wholly personal interpretation. I still stand by it, but it's not something I can prove scientifically unless the OP returns and clarifies. The other part -- people invading the blogs -- is a matter of public record, though. He says it in the original post.
And dude, all due respect, I went through this entire thread and saw maybe three or four people who were put off by the thread title or personally insulted. I may have missed a few, or those posts may have been deleted, but if you're gonna say stuff like "the evidence is heavily in my favor", you should also point to specific passages instead of letting the burden of proof rest solely on me.
No, I get that people can be insulted by people who don't actually mean to be insulting. But I don't see a sheer number of posts.
That's cool. I don't think I'm dismissing anything -- I'm being honest about why I was reluctant to start posting on these forums. I can't be the only one.
I think we're reading things differently. I don't see how only 4 post can talk about it when no post disagree about the trolling needing to stop. It's on every page. If don't pick it up then what's me point it out going to do? If you don't see then you don't see it.
What I mean by sheer is what else are people talking about? Who disagrees with the OP other than the new players part?
It makes sense others feel the same way you do but I don't think that's evidence that they are just hesitating to come forward when it just makes more sense your opinion is in the minority, statistically speaking.
Vainamoinen, as a moderator of modest vintage (meant affectionately, of course ) who has a finger somewhere on the Telltale community's pulse, can you see any positive ways that the behaviour being discussed can be reduced?
I am ACTUALLY getting grey hair AS WE SPEAK. The whole head grey is a good many years off though, I'd assume. So much for "vintage". Among the moderators, I'm just approaching two years of service. We have three mods left who were around decidedly longer...
Moderators have taken all possible steps to get this under control in the forums. We wouldn't ever censor opinions, but as soon as the insult was part of the comment, mod pressure was applied accordingly. If there hadn't always been a moderator around, I think you don't even want to know the state of the forums right now.
I remember the initial delay time as one of VERY heated discussion and insults, but also one where a lot of angry customer comments were voiced in a calm and completely appropriate way. The main concern for me personally was that people who wanted to talk about the actual game as opposed to its release schedule had a hard time finding threads not contaminated with release date discussion, which is why I rigorously merged anything even remotely connected to the release dates into one thread.
On the whole, the discussion is dying down already. In about a month, the Walking Dead game release date discussion will almost have ceased to exist.
Mods have no editing power over blog comments. There's some behind the scenes talk about this issue, but I can not say anything about this right now (and if I could, it wouldn't really help you much).
I would assume that whatever the future holds for Telltale, we've seen the maximum of release date anger possible. Yeah, that's a broad statement, and I shouldn't have made it. What I personally want to try for Fables (IF that's next in line) is at least a comprehensive overview concerning episodic gaming and its nooks and crannies stickied in the respective sub-forum.
Some of the anger was needless because some expectations were founded on customer experiences from big publishers like EA, Blizzard or RockStar. I'd like to explain, clarify, detail exactly what to expect before people buy their Season pass. Moderators might do that far better than Telltale officials because mods CAN talk in maybes, based on experience, while the admins' words would always be interpreted as the law, a promise.
And dude, all due respect, I went through this entire thread and saw maybe three or four people who were put off by the thread title or personally insulted.
I thought the opening post was well said and unoffensive to the general WD community, pointing out troublemakers instead of saying all WD fans are troublemakers. That thread title is so inflexible though. To some people it's all they'll see, and it won't even matter what the actual content of the post was.
Speaking of interpreting language, do you understand the meaning of the word "comparative"? There was nothing in those comic comments that came near the sort of downright offensive and abusive behaviour, but the point is that it was contained to where it belonged.
I'm also picking up a slightly derisive vibe off you. Are you aware that it makes you look foolish? It's clear that as you haven't read the things you're making comments on, you have no basis for the opinions and attitudes you're expressing right now.
Nothing we see these days can compare yet it was shut down this comparative tameness was shut down. I get it. I respect your memory. I'm noy dispusting what you're saying. I happily concide everything you say in your account. lol
Nothing we see these days can compare yet it was shut down this comparative tameness was shut down. I get it. I respect your memory. I'm noy dispusting what you're saying. I happily concide everything you say in your account. lol
LAWLS
Good. I'm glad we don't have any dispusting (sarcastic or otherwise). Given that you only have one conflicting account, I don't see why you're so enthusiastic about disbelieving me.
Again, you're missing the point that that now-gone discussion was confined to places that were related to the subject matter, rather than plastered all over unrelated stuff.
It's also worth mentioning (as it seems that this too was missed) that my suggestion was that you go and read blog and forum comment threads rather than the comic ones.
I am ACTUALLY getting grey hair AS WE SPEAK. The whole head grey is a good many years off though, I'd assume. So much for "vintage". Among the moderators, I'm just approaching two years of service. We have three mods left who were around decidedly longer...
Does that mean that mods are thinner on the ground these days? I haven't seen many unfamiliar faces (avatars?). Now that I think about it, I can't recall spotting another mod besides yourself and Puzzlebox in a while.
I would assume that whatever the future holds for Telltale, we've seen the maximum of release date anger possible. Yeah, that's a broad statement, and I shouldn't have made it. What I personally want to try for Fables (IF that's next in line) is at least a comprehensive overview concerning episodic gaming and its nooks and crannies stickied in the respective sub-forum.
I think that can help, but I can't help that what's happened now shouldn't be left to pass without an "official" response. All I see is a "We're happy to ignore this kind of stuff," attitude from Telltale as a company - which (after a short chat with Job) I'm certain is not the case, but is definitely what the public sees, and is what many of us who've had things we care about insensitively pooed on can't help but feel.
Good. I'm glad we don't have any dispusting (sarcastic or otherwise). Given that you only have one conflicting account, I don't see why you're so enthusiastic about disbelieving me.
Again, you're missing the point that that now-gone discussion was confined to places that were related to the subject matter, rather than plastered all over unrelated stuff.
It's also worth mentioning (as it seems that this too was missed) that my suggestion was that you go and read blog and forum comment threads rather than the comic ones.
All I said is I agree with you and you reply I'm missing the point? LMFAO. Obviously I am.
I'll go check out those old blog post and threads. It's not like mods would delete that shit because it's their job to delete that shit. I expect it to be an accurate representation of the time. Thanks for the thoughtful suggestion.
I'll go check out those old blog post and threads. It's not like mods would delete that shit because it's their job to delete that shit. I expect it to be an accurate representation of the time. Thanks for the thoughtful suggestion.
Please take the time to read Vainamoinen's last comment, paying close attention to the part where he says that blog comments are not moderated, and threads are not censored ^_^
You weren't agreeing with me. You were being sarcastic, just as you are now.
Please take the time to read Vainamoinen's last comment, paying close attention to the part where he says that blog comments are not moderated, and threads are not censored ^_^
Me being sarcastic? Derisive perhaps?
Yeah, sorry. That's what you're choosing to believe, not what's there.
I'm happy to say that offering a casual fictional insult that might be misinterpreted, which is not even remotely hateful (no matter which way you twist it), is totally more civilized than the kind of abhorrent behavior we're talking about.
I actually went back and read some blog post. Guess what? There are virtually no comments. Three to five are common.
Tellgames lack of customer service is shitting up TTGs community. :cool:
Sure, you can go back to beating that dead horse. But I think fans of the show and Activision game are the real unwanted element in the Walking Dead fandom.
Sure, you can go back to beating that dead horse. But I think fans of the show and Activision game are the real unwanted element in the Walking Dead fandom.
As a fan of the show and a possible purchaser of the Activision game, I think the old fuddy duddy fans of TTG company games like Sam and Max are the real unwanted element in the Walking Dead fandom.
Doesn't that prove my point that inappropriate behaviour has escalated lately? The number of comments talking about non-BTTF titles is comparatively low, and those that do aren't aggressive or offensive. If you can't see a difference between the comments there (which are for a game that came out of the Universal partnership, so it's outside of the stuff that I suggested you look through) and the comments in the Sam & Max 25th anniversary blog post, then there's nothing I can say to help you understand that things used to be different.
As a fan of the show and a possible purchaser of the Activision game, I think the old fuddy duddy fans of TTG company games like Sam and Max are the real unwanted element in the Walking Dead fandom.
Longer term Telltale community members aren't being hateful or hurtful towards the The Walking Dead franchise or its existing fanbase, they're not going out of their way to bring TWD fans down whenever news on stuff they like is available, and they're not harrassing individual TWD fans. This thread (which, I might remind you is about behaviour related to TWD, and so is on-topic anyway) is the closest thing that I've seen, and, as we've already established, the limit of its offensiveness is a poorly worded title.
Doesn't that prove my point that inappropriate behaviour has escalated lately? The number of comments talking about non-BTTF titles is comparatively low, and those that do aren't aggressive or offensive. If you can't see a difference between the comments there (which are for a game that came out of the Universal partnership, so it's outside of the stuff that I suggested you look through) and the comments in the Sam & Max 25th anniversary blog post, then there's nothing I can say to help you understand that things used to be different.
Longer term Telltale community members aren't being hateful or hurtful towards the The Walking Dead franchise or its existing fanbase, they're not going out of their way to bring TWD fans down whenever news on stuff they like is available, and they're not harrassing individual TWD fans. This thread (which, I might remind you is about behaviour related to TWD, and so is on-topic anyway) is the closest thing that I've seen, and, as we've already established, the limit of its offensiveness is a poorly worded title.
As a fan of the show and a possible purchaser of the Activision game, I think the old fuddy duddy fans of TTG company games like Sam and Max are the real unwanted element in the Walking Dead fandom.
As a fan of the show and a possible purchaser of the Activision game, I think the old fuddy duddy fans of TTG company games like Sam and Max are the real unwanted element in the Walking Dead fandom.
Nope I am one of the new fans shitting up the community because I watch the Walking Dead tv show and might buy the activision game and TWD was my first Telltale game.
Wait...
I mean I am one of the GOOD new fans that makes this community the best not some old fuddy duddy Sam & Max player telling TWD fans to get off my lawn!
Comments
That pretty much sums up the spirit of the thread. I don't think the OP would disagree.
The TWD LOLtroll thread?
So, Cheeseness as the only one who understood reason (b) for the proposed thread title change, eh? You can do better.
Anthony would surely disagree with what this thread has become. Reading the original post in detail, he doesn't make the mistake to pin inappropriate behavior on every TWD fan; and in fact he outs himself as a fan of TWD himself - the game at least. He doesn't insult, he pleads. The clientele he addresses and finds unbearable is a rather specific and small one: those who flood blog posts with misplaced TWD related comments.
It's not assumption, it's comedic exaggeration (a very blatant exaggeration too, do you take everything with such stonefaced literalism?) to show the huge numbers of people The Walking brought in, plus how TellTale's other great games weren't exactly in danger of mainstream attention.
You're making him out to be way more civil and rational than he actually is. He calls the fans huge jackasses and says they are bitching. That's why this thread got flamed with hate. Read this:
Fine, "TWD is bringing Trolls and People Bitching"
He calls the fans "a huge jackass" and says they are "bitching" indirectly. He's being super passive aggressive, which makes it more annoying to people.
Don't mistake his vagnuess for being rational and not pointing out all fans. His aim is set at all the new fans brought by TWD. He's part of a old school civilized TT fanbase (that never existed).
He even said this thread is a rant. His whole goal was to talk down on people. You can't off topic on a post that was made just to rant. Can you? I don't think so.
Wow, if anybody is misrepresenting the OP, it's you.
He specifically says that he would be a "jackass" if he exhibited a particular type of behaviour. At no point does he say that all of the new people that have come in are practicing this behaviour. He says that "it seems like the game is bringing in a lot of people who, what's the nicest way to say this...aren't interested in being part of the community," which is not to say that all new people are behaving like this.
As somebody who's been vaguely present member of the Telltale community over the past 5 years, I feel that it's up to me to correct you in your false belief that things weren't any better before. The kind of behaviour that the OP is talking about is uncivilised, and we had none of it (certainly not of the voracity that we've seen recently) before the Universal deal started to bear fruit.
It's the internet, this is a fairly heated issue, etc.. There are more reasons to take things literally in this conversation than not.
Either way, having a large number of mainstream fans in itself isn't something I care enough about to be for or against. It doesn't seem to have impacted very heavily on the quality of games that are being made, so the only real difference is the ways in which the dynamics of the community have changed (this includes the ways in which Telltale interact with their fans, just as much as the behaviours of the fans themselves), and as this thread has shown, there have been some pretty negative outcomes.
I think it's a pretty tough issue to get proper discussion on. It's pretty close to home for newcomers who're worried about feeling alienated, and it's hard for those of us who've been grossly offended by recent events to stay objective too.
So, let me ask you this then. If he would be a Jackass for exhibiting that behavior, does that make a person that does exhibit that behavior a jackass? Yes. And who does he say is doing that? New people to the forums brought by the TWD. So, I think I was right.
You're splitting hairs. Fine, not "all," but what is "a lot"? Most? 99%? It's vague but it's clear it's not favorable to new people to the forums.
Do you count calling people Jackass and saying bitching is civilized? And he's been here a while.
Thanks for setting me straight, or whatever self-righteous thing you think you're doing, but several other members have contradicted your testimony. If this were a court case based on testimony alone you'd be losing badly.
Nobody seems to agree with you, even among people that have been here just as long or longer, and you're not acknowledging that. You should really just drop that point.
On the one hand, that allows him to insult himself as the "huge jackass" if he were to apply the same whole blog & forum release date topic universal all covering nougat spread. Now, I agree that this rhetoric finesse doesn't acquit him of potentially insulting people. But compared to what I have become used to in the past six months, it's a damn fine start. Maybe Anthony is indeed far less 'civil and rational' than I 'made him', but that would be in huge part due to the fact that I had half a year of continuously lowered expectations by now. And I STILL say that a few loud and offensive voices are the problem, not a crowd.
On the other hand, Anthony explicitly narrows the group that he feels "pissed off" by. He shifts his anger towards the blog; he shifts it towards a very special kind of comment. I would even assume that of the people on the blog who are troubling us most, only a very small minority even frequents the forum. I don't see the aggressive Telltale blog commenters and the Telltale forum community as mutually exclusive groups, but I dare say they seldom intersect. As an extension of Anthony's theory, I would indeed say that some people are so opposed to 'being part of the community' that they don't even register. This being the youtube thumbs-down approach to commenting; this being an attempt at keeping the conversation entirely one-sided for fear of a contrary opinion.
Right now, people get insulted and stalked on the blog. Whatever you might think of the ones stalked, we would certainly agree that this has_to_stop.
Let's assume the best case. He's pleading for some people to stop trolling blog post and forums.
Now, who would disagree with that? Has anybody disagreed with that? No. It's not even debatle or up for discussion. WE ALL AGREE ON THAT.
What we all don't agree on, and have been discussing, is if TWD fans are trolling "huge jackasses" and that love "bitching," which has cause this heated debate.
You don't have to take my word. Prove me wrong by find JUST ONE POST where someone seriously disagree that people shouldn't troll and spam blogs and the forums. One. You can't do it.
Now there are several post talking about his derogatory behavior and language. It's littered throughout the thread. In fact, it's all of them, except the post were people agree with him, which EVERYBODY does.
Thus, I prove my point. And the title should be "TWD fans are trolls" b/c that's what this thread comes down to.
I reread the original post and thought it was pretty clear the he's referring to two subgroups; people who post inappropriate comments about TWD in unrelated blog entries and a cross-section of people who relentlessly post/create threads kvetching about release dates. He was also careful to note in his post that he believed (as do I) that TT needs to adopt better communication strategies regarding release dates, bugs and other related matters.
See my reply above. Personally, I see the group he's referring to as a vocal minority, and I find them incredibly irritating myself. As a somewhat new member to these forums, that -- and the bizarre levels of hostility that I see almost everywhere in TWD discussion forums -- put me off from posting at all.
The jackass thing was an example he was using to illustrate his point, and bitching is a synonym for complaining. The people he is referring to complain. I don't see what the problem is here. It's accurate.
I absolutely agree 100% with him, and I'm sure many people do too. These people are probably hesitant to respond, as I was, because they're wary of getting verbally attacked in these forums, which has happened to me before here.
Everybody agrees with him. Nobody I've seen has disagree with Anthony. Have you seen someone that disagree with him so far? So why is this thread so busy?
He's using a terrible communication strategy called passive aggressiveness. Big Anthony has insulted many people, and maybe they read him wrong, but that is what is happening. Regardless of his intent, it's a fact many people took offense to what he said. Anybody can just go and count the post to prove it.
He seems to be personally attacking new fans and that's what you would expect from a rant, which is what he says he's doing.
What rant is a rational, thought out theory? None. That's why their rants.
I think he's getting way more credit than he deserves. Just my opinion. And I'm done with this thread. lol
I'm happy to say that offering a casual fictional insult that might be misinterpreted, which is not even remotely hateful (no matter which way you twist it), is totally more civilised than the kind of abhorrent behaviour we're talking about.
Cool story bro. I submit the comment history of every blog on the Telltale site as well as every thread in the other forums as evidence. Let me know if you still have concerns after you've read them.
The real lingering question is how to go about stopping that behaviour. It's sad but true that having a thread to talk about it in this subforum isn't really changing things.
And this is the heart of the issue. Nobody, new or old, deserves to feel like that.
Everything you said is a very favorable interpretation but you haven't pointed to specific passages as evidence. What do you base your interpretation on? You can say it's perfectly clear but it's better if you actually demonstrate it is b/c all the angry post show it isn't at all clear. The evidence is heavily in my favor at this point.
As far as the insults, let me demonstrate how it's insulting. Don't take this personal. It's simply a demonstration. I don't mean any of it.
I don't know how you would read that, but I (and I imagine most people) would take that as an insult. You're being called a huge jackass in a very passive aggressive manor. I apologize if you actually took offense to that but if you did then you'd know how others felt reading that.
Not like it matters. You don't have to find it insulting for it to be insulting. The sheer number of post about it is proof enough it's insulting, even if you don't think it is. What do you say to that?
I'm glad someone has finally agreed with him the pre-walking dead forums. The overwhelming majority still disagree. You can dismiss it as fear but I think most people just actually disagree with you two. lol
All right, let us assume that. Because I think he does!
What you are attempting to do right now is not to interpret the original post, but to decide its meaning based on the answers to this post. And that while the original post is still there and unedited! You can't "prove" anything with those other posts. They're not best evidence. They're hearsay!
The majority of what? People who've posted in this thread? It's immensely clear that the majority of people visiting this subforum haven't been around long enough to have any valuable perspective on the history of Telltale's community.
Also, didn't you say you were done with this thread?
I'm sorry, what is in there than? What did he mean by "a lot"? IF I'm wrong than correct me.
The whole comments? Like the ones that got shut down on the comic strips? That's your evidence? LOL
You know me, or any sane person, isn't going to go reading all the forum post. There's trolling all over. It's the nature of the internet. No doubt. And mods clean things up so you can't go back too far anyway. Really, testimony is the strongest evidence and so far it's against you, bro.
Look, I, and everybody else, agrees with Anthony. Show me one person that hasn't.
And then explain to me why you have to interpret it as an insult for it to be an insult. Several people felt insulted and that's a fact and you're not responding to that. You just ignore that HUGE fact.
You're kind of in the minority that doesn't think he's being insulting, yet you're confident you're right. Maybe you are but when it comes to interpreting language the majority does rule.
Communication only has meaning when we mostly agree on it. It's how you can read and understand this paragraph.
Actually, that's a perfect example. The people offering disparaging feedback on the comics were doing so in appropriate places, and from what I recall (and my memory of it is likely to be a lot better than yours), it was all comparatively tame.
I already have. Go back and read my previous posts some more if you want.
Hearsay is third person testimony. You can read direct testimony from other people.
But how can we can we communicate unless a majority agrees on meaning? And the majority is saying he's being insulting to new fans.
Let's take German and English to demonstrate what disagreeing on meaning can create. In German, dick means thick. Rot mean red. Bald means soon. das kissen means pillow. Fast means almost. I could go on. There's tons.
Now, a German person can interpret it in their own way, and that's legitimate, but it's a disaster waiting to happen when talking in English b/c the majority have a different meaning for those words.
In the same way, we can be generous and say he wasn't being insulting but the majority clearly sees it that way and that's what matters.
Beyond that, we just have to agree to disagree.
Yeah, it was so tame it got shut down. That makes total sense.
That will show them. The nerve of those people and their tame comments. Shut it down!
You've really proved me wrong. I can't argue with your excellent memory. lol
Speaking of interpreting language, do you understand the meaning of the word "comparative"? There was nothing in those comic comments that came near the sort of downright offensive and abusive behaviour, but the point is that it was contained to where it belonged.
I'm also picking up a slightly derisive vibe off you. Are you aware that it makes you look foolish? It's clear that as you haven't read the things you're making comments on, you have no basis for the opinions and attitudes you're expressing right now.
I unfortunately can't provide you with empirical evidence on one part of this (where I interpret his post as being about people who post all-caps, shouty, relentless threads about release dates) as that's all based on personal observations I've made, making that part a wholly personal interpretation. I still stand by it, but it's not something I can prove scientifically unless the OP returns and clarifies. The other part -- people invading the blogs -- is a matter of public record, though. He says it in the original post.
And dude, all due respect, I went through this entire thread and saw maybe three or four people who were put off by the thread title or personally insulted. I may have missed a few, or those posts may have been deleted, but if you're gonna say stuff like "the evidence is heavily in my favor", you should also point to specific passages instead of letting the burden of proof rest solely on me.
No, I get that people can be insulted by people who don't actually mean to be insulting. But I don't see a sheer number of posts.
That's cool. I don't think I'm dismissing anything -- I'm being honest about why I was reluctant to start posting on these forums. I can't be the only one.
I am ACTUALLY getting grey hair AS WE SPEAK. The whole head grey is a good many years off though, I'd assume. So much for "vintage". Among the moderators, I'm just approaching two years of service. We have three mods left who were around decidedly longer...
Moderators have taken all possible steps to get this under control in the forums. We wouldn't ever censor opinions, but as soon as the insult was part of the comment, mod pressure was applied accordingly. If there hadn't always been a moderator around, I think you don't even want to know the state of the forums right now.
I remember the initial delay time as one of VERY heated discussion and insults, but also one where a lot of angry customer comments were voiced in a calm and completely appropriate way. The main concern for me personally was that people who wanted to talk about the actual game as opposed to its release schedule had a hard time finding threads not contaminated with release date discussion, which is why I rigorously merged anything even remotely connected to the release dates into one thread.
On the whole, the discussion is dying down already. In about a month, the Walking Dead game release date discussion will almost have ceased to exist.
Mods have no editing power over blog comments. There's some behind the scenes talk about this issue, but I can not say anything about this right now (and if I could, it wouldn't really help you much).
I would assume that whatever the future holds for Telltale, we've seen the maximum of release date anger possible. Yeah, that's a broad statement, and I shouldn't have made it. What I personally want to try for Fables (IF that's next in line) is at least a comprehensive overview concerning episodic gaming and its nooks and crannies stickied in the respective sub-forum.
Some of the anger was needless because some expectations were founded on customer experiences from big publishers like EA, Blizzard or RockStar. I'd like to explain, clarify, detail exactly what to expect before people buy their Season pass. Moderators might do that far better than Telltale officials because mods CAN talk in maybes, based on experience, while the admins' words would always be interpreted as the law, a promise.
I thought the opening post was well said and unoffensive to the general WD community, pointing out troublemakers instead of saying all WD fans are troublemakers. That thread title is so inflexible though. To some people it's all they'll see, and it won't even matter what the actual content of the post was.
Good. I'm glad we don't have any dispusting (sarcastic or otherwise). Given that you only have one conflicting account, I don't see why you're so enthusiastic about disbelieving me.
Again, you're missing the point that that now-gone discussion was confined to places that were related to the subject matter, rather than plastered all over unrelated stuff.
It's also worth mentioning (as it seems that this too was missed) that my suggestion was that you go and read blog and forum comment threads rather than the comic ones.
Does that mean that mods are thinner on the ground these days? I haven't seen many unfamiliar faces (avatars?). Now that I think about it, I can't recall spotting another mod besides yourself and Puzzlebox in a while.
I think that can help, but I can't help that what's happened now shouldn't be left to pass without an "official" response. All I see is a "We're happy to ignore this kind of stuff," attitude from Telltale as a company - which (after a short chat with Job) I'm certain is not the case, but is definitely what the public sees, and is what many of us who've had things we care about insensitively pooed on can't help but feel.
All I said is I agree with you and you reply I'm missing the point? LMFAO. Obviously I am.
I'll go check out those old blog post and threads. It's not like mods would delete that shit because it's their job to delete that shit. I expect it to be an accurate representation of the time. Thanks for the thoughtful suggestion.
You weren't agreeing with me. You were being sarcastic, just as you are now.
Please take the time to read Vainamoinen's last comment, paying close attention to the part where he says that blog comments are not moderated, and threads are not censored ^_^
Me being sarcastic? Derisive perhaps?
Yeah, sorry. That's what you're choosing to believe, not what's there.
I'm happy to say that offering a casual fictional insult that might be misinterpreted, which is not even remotely hateful (no matter which way you twist it), is totally more civilized than the kind of abhorrent behavior we're talking about.
I actually went back and read some blog post. Guess what? There are virtually no comments. Three to five are common.
Some do have a fair number of comments and guess what? http://www.telltalegames.com/community/blogs/id-811
Nothing offensive there.
Hey, I fixed your quote man.
Tellgames lack of customer service is shitting up TTGs community. :cool:
Sure, you can go back to beating that dead horse. But I think fans of the show and Activision game are the real unwanted element in the Walking Dead fandom.
As a fan of the show and a possible purchaser of the Activision game, I think the old fuddy duddy fans of TTG company games like Sam and Max are the real unwanted element in the Walking Dead fandom.
Cute set up, but utterly pointless.
Doesn't that prove my point that inappropriate behaviour has escalated lately? The number of comments talking about non-BTTF titles is comparatively low, and those that do aren't aggressive or offensive. If you can't see a difference between the comments there (which are for a game that came out of the Universal partnership, so it's outside of the stuff that I suggested you look through) and the comments in the Sam & Max 25th anniversary blog post, then there's nothing I can say to help you understand that things used to be different.
Longer term Telltale community members aren't being hateful or hurtful towards the The Walking Dead franchise or its existing fanbase, they're not going out of their way to bring TWD fans down whenever news on stuff they like is available, and they're not harrassing individual TWD fans. This thread (which, I might remind you is about behaviour related to TWD, and so is on-topic anyway) is the closest thing that I've seen, and, as we've already established, the limit of its offensiveness is a poorly worded title.
Word.
Have you ever played Sam & Max?
Nope I am one of the new fans shitting up the community because I watch the Walking Dead tv show and might buy the activision game and TWD was my first Telltale game.
Wait...
I mean I am one of the GOOD new fans that makes this community the best not some old fuddy duddy Sam & Max player telling TWD fans to get off my lawn!