You don't have to convince me. Both my friend and I fell asleep the first time I tried watching it. In the middle of the day. While we were attempting to riff on it to make it more interesting.
Sometimes, taking things slow can be really cool (see: Lawrence of Arabia). But here, it just highlighted all the shortcomings by giving me ample time to consider some of the awful dialogue at the beginning.
The comic panels are fine. They're different, someone tried it out, and its more interesting than a majority of superhero films try to be.
I think it's where they were used that was irritating. As a montage? Fine. When there's different bits of action going on in each one? Not so fine.
Like, I loved the comic panels in the credits of Iron Man 3. That was brilliant. Sure it had action, but you'd already seen it before and weren't trying to pay attention to what was going on in four different panels at the same time, so it was great. A nice little recap.
Look, I take back any insinuation I made that people should all like Hulk like I do, and I'm not going to say it doesn't have its dull moments. But the idea that you can let a Marvel film slip by and ignore problems there but nitpick what this film has to offer to death is LAUGHABLE. This is not a movie that is more stupid than Iron Man 2, or The Incredible Hulk, or Blade Trinity, or X Men The Last Stand. As a film, and something that actually tries to do something with the material, it blows efforts like The Amazing Spiderman and Thor out of the water. By not being typical. Hell, most of marsdens complaints in his review amount to this movie isn't typical enough. Where's my Hulk smash. Yes the angry line is stupid, I'll give you that. But I could care less about Hulk smashing up a city. Ruffalos Banner made Avengers for me. Good going, Avengers. You made sure not to overuse Hulk and to give Banner more screentime. Kinda like this movie. Also, this green hulk in hulk is more like Gray Hulk, which is great because Gray Hulk is far better. But he didn't need to talk to be compelling. And as far as things like dumb dialog, it could be better, but its not so shitty it needs to be avoided. Should I bring up the stutter dialog between Tony and Pepper, or the um uh um uh sorry you go firstno you dialog in the Amazing Spiderman.
See, Fawful, my point is more that it isn't atypical enough. They still had to have a big boss battle at the end, when if they were going for a more interesting take, the end confrontation with David Banner would have been anticlimactic and hollow like in the comics. If they'd done that, I might have tried harder to watch the end of the movie. Since I knew that I'd just get a smashy fight, I wasn't that interested in sitting through the rest of the movie to see that.
But that's just it, its not an atypical smashy fight, its short, brutal, and more about capping off the emotional arc. Hulk doesn't win by strength, and he gets his ass handed to him rather fast because there is literally nothing he can do to David. Letting David win is what kills David. On top of that, there's no military, Betty isn't in harms way, its not in a city, and its not overly long or filled with flashy CGI. The CGI is quick, dark, low lit, and grimey. David takes Hulk to a small, understated, dark, non flashy area and proceeds to settle things less man on man and more in a small, lonely sort of way. Instead of having a large fight between Hulk and an electric man, they go through the clouds in quick, artistic, painterly stills as the mysterious, low key score plays. Then they land and David absorbs rock...Hulk throws him in water and he absorbs the water then Hulk, making it impossible for Hulk to fight him, so Hulk gives in. Ross drops a gamma bomb on them as David loses himself trying to absorb Bruce. Its more symbolic than anything.
Look, I take back any insinuation I made that people should all like Hulk like I do, and I'm not going to say it doesn't have its dull moments. But the idea that you can let a Marvel film slip by and ignore problems there but nitpick what this film has to offer to death is LAUGHABLE.
It does have some good points. It's just that I fell asleep before I could get to them.
This is not a movie that is more stupid than Iron Man 2, or The Incredible Hulk, or Blade Trinity, or X Men The Last Stand. As a film, and something that actually tries to do something with the material, it blows efforts like The Amazing Spiderman and Thor out of the water. By not being typical.
I don't have a problem with it being atypical. It just needed to do it WELL, and it really didn't. The acting is either incredibly bland or (in Nick Nolte's case) incredibly over-the-top, and no matter how good the material is, it's hard to care when the cast don't seem to.
Hell, most of marsdens complaints in his review amount to this movie isn't typical enough. Where's my Hulk smash. Yes the angry line is stupid, I'll give you that. But I could care less about Hulk smashing up a city.
Well, when you go to see a Hulk movie, you kinda wanna see the dude fighting, don't you? And while there are action scenes, they're very slow paced and not particularly exciting. Not saying he had to blow up a city, but...
Ruffalos Banner made Avengers for me. Good going, Avengers. You made sure not to overuse Hulk and to give Banner more screentime. Kinda like this movie. Also, this green hulk in hulk is more like Gray Hulk, which is great because Gray Hulk is far better. But he didn't need to talk to be compelling.
Grey Hulk... I know very little of him and will say nothing as a result. Agreed that Rufalo does a great job though.
And as far as things like dumb dialog, it could be better, but its not so shitty it needs to be avoided. Should I bring up the stutter dialog between Tony and Pepper, or the um uh um uh sorry you go firstno you dialog in the Amazing Spiderman.
No movie's perfect and yes, those dialogue scenes you mention were problematic. But Hulk could have been SO much better. If the direction of the cast had been better and they'd had more emotion in their performances, I think a lot of the other flaws would have seemed a lot less overt and been more forgiveable. But that's not how it turned out and as a result the film's a real slog to get through.
Well, when you go to see a Hulk movie, you kinda wanna see the dude fighting, don't you? And while there are action scenes, they're very slow paced and not particularly exciting. Not saying he had to blow up a city, but...
See, this isn't a problem for me. I am perfectly alright with a Hulk movie that only has brief fight scenes because really, the best storylines are the Banner-centric ones anyways.
See, to me, Hulk shares the most similarities with Superman, oddly enough. They're both pretty much invincible except under specific circumstances. Hulk's just happens to come up more often. That's the thing the movies miss on. Hulk is NEVER in any danger of being killed, that's not the thing you're supposed to worry about in the comics. Maybe the early ones, but as they started to demonstrate his invulnerability, him dying really isn't a threat ever.
The draw of the series is how the transformations affect Banner and the people he loves over time. And believe me, he goes completely fucking nuts because he can't reconcile the two parts of himself. The line starts blurring from where Banner ends and the Hulk begins and he starts doing incredibly violent things as Banner and the Hulk ends up being the nice guy for a change. He hurts Betty and his "sidekick" Rick Jones over and over again and sometimes he can't stand that this happens and other times he's too wrapped up in his own issues to even care.
The problem I think with both Hulk movies is that they were taking from the older comics that everyone knows with the basic General Ross trying to kill the Hulk, Banner gets angry, Hulks out, wrecks shit. Hulk did some different things, but I can't comment on them, Incredible Hulk did some things better and some things worse, but the reason neither of them was particularly good is because the stories they were drawing on just weren't that interesting. Everyone knows how they end. Things get smashed and Hulk leaps off into the sunset.
I think the best plot would be one where his worst enemy is himself. Then, anything could happen.
The Hulk in Hulk just wants to be left alone. But Ross is like no gonna chase you with tanks and Hulk is exasperated by it and destroys the tanks to get them out of his way. He doesn't even kill the drivers, he immobilizes the tanks and scares the shit out of the soldiers. Alcore's right about what makes Hulk interesting;(she should be, she's the hulk fan who introduced me to the comics) its not high stakes action, smashing shit up, or fast paced fighting. The Hulk, at his best, is slow, ponderous, and psychological. This movie doesn't do that perfectly, but it comes closer than anything else has.
My ideal Hulk film would be the best of Hulk: Visionaries put together in a cohesive plotline. It would have to appear after some other gamma-powered superheroes show up in the movieverse because it would be exploring why Banner is the only one of them who loses his shit all the time. It also wouldn't be a story where there's some evil villain out to destroy the world. I mean, there can and should be an antagonist, but they're more of an obstacle rather than the big bad. It would be a story where Banner/Hulk has to stop some line of incredibly destructive military research that he started before his transformation.
I think this would make for a good story because it:
a) touches on his past and helps out solidifying his characterization
b) highlights the changes between pre and post-Hulk Banner (could have flashbacks of how he was before)
c) can include a recognizable villain, but only as an annoyance... which is really what all villains are to him in the comics
d) go back to the "misunderstood" roots of the Hulk
e) still have him be a hero... just one that might be doing the right thing by attacking government installations.
Aaand... totally forgot to post this when I wrote it... four hours ago.
Honestly, World War Hulk wouldn't be a very interesting movie. Too much Hulk. With the way they've done the movie!Hulk as non-speaking (except in very, very short snippets) an entire movie with nearly all him and no Banner would be kinda terrible.
I imagine Superman just fell a couple feet before recovering from the surprise attack (for how else would he have been caught off-guard like that?), flying back up to Spidey and then rocket-punching him into orbit.
We have Marvel vs Capcom and DC Universe vs Mortal Kombat...Exactly when will the decide to make Marvel vs DC? Batman vs Spiderman!, Lex vs Doc, Ock! Iron Man vs Superman...
Well, I guess I'll have to see what makes those two interesting, then...
Though, this is really looking good for a future Civil War movie. I mean, them plus possibly Doctor Strange and Ant-Man and whatever minor heroes get dredged up in the SHIELD show... that gives a pretty good roster for actually having sides in that civil war.
Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch? Ugh. I really don't see how they'd work in the more 'realistic' movie universe. A guy who runs really fast and a woman who has back luck powers? Yeah, that'll fit right in with Iron Man and Captain America.
I'm not exactly a fan either, but if Whedon is using them, I'm pretty sure it's because they play a vital role in his plot, not because of fan service. So I'm willing to give it a chance. He did mention wanting a "closer to home" Avengers 2. So maybe they factor into that, perhaps as a representation of a growing number of mutants because they can't use X-men.
But yeah, I will admit it seems kinda weird since all the other heroes we've currently got are due to pure science, though in Thor's case, it's really super advanced alien science. But still science.
They might be reflavored to fit as well. Like, we have AIM established. If they can't be natural mutants, they could be escaped experiments or something.
There we go. They might be antagonists for all we know. Or, better yet, they could be on the same side but completely unpredictable and give the Avengers bad press, which would fit the whole "smaller scale" style he said he was going for.
It's all fun and games until the government comes to take your Iron Man suit away... and the public agrees.
Mandarin was different because Black hates his character. Whedon loves these characters, so anything that matters about them will be factored in here. Dashing would disagree and say Magneto is all that matters about them, though.
Comments
Sometimes, taking things slow can be really cool (see: Lawrence of Arabia). But here, it just highlighted all the shortcomings by giving me ample time to consider some of the awful dialogue at the beginning.
I like loads of shows and movies that get panned by the general masses. I just ignore them and watch the stuff I like and say screw you :cool:.
I think it's where they were used that was irritating. As a montage? Fine. When there's different bits of action going on in each one? Not so fine.
Like, I loved the comic panels in the credits of Iron Man 3. That was brilliant. Sure it had action, but you'd already seen it before and weren't trying to pay attention to what was going on in four different panels at the same time, so it was great. A nice little recap.
I don't have a problem with it being atypical. It just needed to do it WELL, and it really didn't. The acting is either incredibly bland or (in Nick Nolte's case) incredibly over-the-top, and no matter how good the material is, it's hard to care when the cast don't seem to.
Well, when you go to see a Hulk movie, you kinda wanna see the dude fighting, don't you? And while there are action scenes, they're very slow paced and not particularly exciting. Not saying he had to blow up a city, but...
Grey Hulk... I know very little of him and will say nothing as a result. Agreed that Rufalo does a great job though.
No movie's perfect and yes, those dialogue scenes you mention were problematic. But Hulk could have been SO much better. If the direction of the cast had been better and they'd had more emotion in their performances, I think a lot of the other flaws would have seemed a lot less overt and been more forgiveable. But that's not how it turned out and as a result the film's a real slog to get through.
See, this isn't a problem for me. I am perfectly alright with a Hulk movie that only has brief fight scenes because really, the best storylines are the Banner-centric ones anyways.
See, to me, Hulk shares the most similarities with Superman, oddly enough. They're both pretty much invincible except under specific circumstances. Hulk's just happens to come up more often. That's the thing the movies miss on. Hulk is NEVER in any danger of being killed, that's not the thing you're supposed to worry about in the comics. Maybe the early ones, but as they started to demonstrate his invulnerability, him dying really isn't a threat ever.
The draw of the series is how the transformations affect Banner and the people he loves over time. And believe me, he goes completely fucking nuts because he can't reconcile the two parts of himself. The line starts blurring from where Banner ends and the Hulk begins and he starts doing incredibly violent things as Banner and the Hulk ends up being the nice guy for a change. He hurts Betty and his "sidekick" Rick Jones over and over again and sometimes he can't stand that this happens and other times he's too wrapped up in his own issues to even care.
The problem I think with both Hulk movies is that they were taking from the older comics that everyone knows with the basic General Ross trying to kill the Hulk, Banner gets angry, Hulks out, wrecks shit. Hulk did some different things, but I can't comment on them, Incredible Hulk did some things better and some things worse, but the reason neither of them was particularly good is because the stories they were drawing on just weren't that interesting. Everyone knows how they end. Things get smashed and Hulk leaps off into the sunset.
I think the best plot would be one where his worst enemy is himself. Then, anything could happen.
I think this would make for a good story because it:
a) touches on his past and helps out solidifying his characterization
b) highlights the changes between pre and post-Hulk Banner (could have flashbacks of how he was before)
c) can include a recognizable villain, but only as an annoyance... which is really what all villains are to him in the comics
d) go back to the "misunderstood" roots of the Hulk
e) still have him be a hero... just one that might be doing the right thing by attacking government installations.
Aaand... totally forgot to post this when I wrote it... four hours ago.
Source-
Though, this is really looking good for a future Civil War movie. I mean, them plus possibly Doctor Strange and Ant-Man and whatever minor heroes get dredged up in the SHIELD show... that gives a pretty good roster for actually having sides in that civil war.
Also, I don't know many other games that allow you to surf down the street on a bus.
But yeah, I will admit it seems kinda weird since all the other heroes we've currently got are due to pure science, though in Thor's case, it's really super advanced alien science. But still science.
They might be reflavored to fit as well. Like, we have AIM established. If they can't be natural mutants, they could be escaped experiments or something.
It's all fun and games until the government comes to take your Iron Man suit away... and the public agrees.