They make a trap for the maskes man and then like in scooby doo they tell who it is and lift the mask to reveal!......The skag that they ran over at the start!
The wiki states that when killing the body double in BL2 that, "The double's illusory façade deactivates after his pocket watch is stolen, revealing the features of an Engineer."* Another reason it probably isn't is the two have different voice actors, I'm sure they'd keep that the same. (Plus the body double's lines are five times more cheesy than Timothy's.)
If im not mistaken though, spoilers for borderlands 2 (not borderlands pre se) you kill his doppleganger in it, and i think tales takes place after borderlands 2
Well, if OPs has right assumptions about motives for masked man to hide his face then I think its far more likely that person not to be MAN at all but WOMAN. Those bulky clothes and voice modulator can really be more suitable to hide slim woman anathomy and female voice.
And, if we assume that masked man is really a woman we already know only one woman well aware about "Gortys Project" and that's MOXXI!!! In episode 1 Moxxi sent Zero to retrieve Gortys for her, which was apparent from walkie conversation at the end of episode.
So, if masked person is already familiar to us Moxxi far better candidate then Timothy because:
1) Mask is oriented to cover her female voice and make her bulky.
2) She is only person that we actually know that's familiar with Gortys, aside from Zero. It kind of makes more sense masked person motives be related to Gortys Project then to Handsome Jack. Even Handsome Jack involvement is about Gortys, which he states loud and clear. And, no matter how Handsome Jack being popular, all Boderlands games were about vaults (and thats what's Gortys really all about), so no point to presume this one will not.
3) She can have knowledge abouth both Rhys and Fiona bacause of Zero's involvement.
4) Once she found Zero failed to track Gortys its makes very logical to step herself into the game and hunt only two person she is aware that has knowledge about Gortys.
5) Episode 1 title is "Zero Sum" which kind empasys and limits Zero's role mainly on episode 1. So, its kind of logical to presume he already played his role in serial at this part and further on his employer Moxxi will be personaly involved in that storyline.
To further what Dapnee said, Anthony Burch (head writer for Borderlands) also confirmed that the double you kill in BL2 isn't Timothy (during the Gearbox livestream for the Doppelganger DLC).
If im not mistaken though, spoilers for borderlands 2 (not borderlands pre se) you kill his doppleganger in it, and i think tales takes place after borderlands 2
As I posted in another thread, as soon as I realised The Captor was using gender-neutral pronouns, Moxxi shot to my top list of suspects (for the reasons you have so eloquently stated), but, part of me thinks there's just no way she could strap her chest down that much:
Jack doesn't call her Ol' Balloon Tits for nothing!
Well, if OPs has right assumptions about motives for masked man to hide his face then I think its far more likely that person not to be MAN … moreat all but WOMAN. Those bulky clothes and voice modulator can really be more suitable to hide slim woman anathomy and female voice.
And, if we assume that masked man is really a woman we already know only one woman well aware about "Gortys Project" and that's MOXXI!!! In episode 1 Moxxi sent Zero to retrieve Gortys for her, which was apparent from walkie conversation at the end of episode.
So, if masked person is already familiar to us Moxxi far better candidate then Timothy because:
1) Mask is oriented to cover her female voice and make her bulky.
2) She is only person that we actually know that's familiar with Gortys, aside from Zero. It kind of makes more sense masked person motives be related to Gortys Project then to Handsome Jack. Even Handsome Jack involvement is about Gortys, which he … [view original content]
I dont see a problem there. That bulky anti-radiation suit can hide anything under wraps. Even huge tits. She could even be pregnant in that suit and it will not show.
She had motives, she had means, she had knowledge. Timing is right. Everything is happening in the future, after Zero plan failed.
Only con for theory Moxxi did it is that it's too apparent, too many pros.
As I posted in another thread, as soon as I realised The Captor was using gender-neutral pronouns, Moxxi shot to my top list of suspects (fo… morer the reasons you have so eloquently stated), but, part of me thinks there's just no way she could strap her chest down that much:
Jack doesn't call her Ol' Balloon Tits for nothing!
One more pro for Moxxi theory and con for Timothy theory:
When Fiona is telling hers story she says they wanted to make vault key scam their last deal, something that will makes them rich till rest of their lives. And masked person comments "That sounds familiar" which can mean some kind of personal identification to that kind of deals. Which is, kind of, Moxxi's modus operandi. And something Timothy, as he is only Handsome Jack's double and not real Jack, lacks off completly. It would be very weird thing for him to say, I think.
One more pro for Moxxi theory and con for Timothy theory:
When Fiona is telling hers story she says they wanted to make vault key scam their last deal, something that will makes them rich till rest of their lives. And masked person comments "That sounds familiar" which can mean some kind of personal identification to that kind of deals. Which is, kind of, Moxxi's modus operandi. And something Timothy, as he is only Handsome Jack's double and not real Jack, lacks off completly. It would be very weird thing for him to say, I think.
As I posted in another thread, as soon as I realised The Captor was using gender-neutral pronouns, Moxxi shot to my top list of suspects (fo… morer the reasons you have so eloquently stated), but, part of me thinks there's just no way she could strap her chest down that much:
Jack doesn't call her Ol' Balloon Tits for nothing!
One more pro for Moxxi theory and con for Timothy theory:
When Fiona is telling hers story she says they wanted to make vault key scam th… moreeir last deal, something that will makes them rich till rest of their lives. And masked person comments "That sounds familiar" which can mean some kind of personal identification to that kind of deals. Which is, kind of, Moxxi's modus operandi. And something Timothy, as he is only Handsome Jack's double and not real Jack, lacks off completly. It would be very weird thing for him to say, I think.
But Fiona doesnt know how Rhys' story started, she was present only at the end of him telling it.
Nor masked person can presume that he knows Rhys well enough from before so that comment actually makes sense.
Not he is addressing it to Rhys or talking to himself. He is addressing to Fiona. So, it has to be personal. Imagine it not said though that voice modulator making voice to sound mechanical but to be said with Moxxi's own voice.
Reading this, there's one thing I have to state as a con for the Moxxi theory and pro for Timothy.
Timothy makes more sense from a writing standpoint. What I mean by that is that we know that while telltale absolutely wants to make connections to other Borderlands games, it also wants to still be able to appeal to an audience of people who have never played borderlands. That being said, we know telltale love their big reveals, and the masked person will likely be one of them.
Now, imagine this from a perspective of someone who has played none of the past borderlands games. Moxxi is barely mentioned. She appears on a poster, and says three lines to Zer0 without her face being shown or name being said. Compare that to Handsome Jack. So far, the whole game has been HANDSOME JACK HANDSOME JACK HANDSOME JACK. He's mentioned every time he can be. Even new people know who he is now, whereas they might not even know who Moxxi is. So it makes far more sense for the masked person to be able to surprise and intrigue everyone, rather than just some people.
One more pro for Moxxi theory and con for Timothy theory:
When Fiona is telling hers story she says they wanted to make vault key scam th… moreeir last deal, something that will makes them rich till rest of their lives. And masked person comments "That sounds familiar" which can mean some kind of personal identification to that kind of deals. Which is, kind of, Moxxi's modus operandi. And something Timothy, as he is only Handsome Jack's double and not real Jack, lacks off completly. It would be very weird thing for him to say, I think.
Well, Handsome Jack was mentioned more times, you are right about that. But, as I mention before, I think masked kidnapper identity will be mistery for a while and witters probably hasn't lay all the clues yet, or even introduced that person so far. So, Moxxi haven't being properly introduced kind of fits into the things the way I see it and expect it. In a couple episodes more we will pobably meet Moxxi in person. So, its kind of long game, long mystery. Handsome Jack could be red harring writters plant for episode 1. It could even turn up that Hansome Jack storyline concludes early on. Maybe as a part of next episode shocking cliffhanger. And he is totally forgotten by the time kidnapper is revealed.
Anyway, I've started new thread with my Moxxi theory so it doesnt make damage to yours as a part of same thread.
Reading this, there's one thing I have to state as a con for the Moxxi theory and pro for Timothy.
Timothy makes more sense from a writin… moreg standpoint. What I mean by that is that we know that while telltale absolutely wants to make connections to other Borderlands games, it also wants to still be able to appeal to an audience of people who have never played borderlands. That being said, we know telltale love their big reveals, and the masked person will likely be one of them.
Now, imagine this from a perspective of someone who has played none of the past borderlands games. Moxxi is barely mentioned. She appears on a poster, and says three lines to Zer0 without her face being shown or name being said. Compare that to Handsome Jack. So far, the whole game has been HANDSOME JACK HANDSOME JACK HANDSOME JACK. He's mentioned every time he can be. Even new people know who he is now, whereas they might not even know who Moxxi is. So it makes fa… [view original content]
The thing is that even if Moxxi shows up later, it won't be for long enough to make a dramatic impact with new players. They won't be surprised or care. It's very likely she will be introduced, but I still think she won't be the masked person. Even if they do know, the reveal doesn't carry enough weight. "Oh, it's Moxxi, ok, next." Timothy would raise a lot more questions and excitement.
And I highly doubt Handsome Jack is a red herring. He's one of the most beloved villains in all of gaming, and this is really the last game they can use him in, since he's dead and the AI will likely be gone by the end of Tales. I think that they would want to use him to his full extent.
But all of these theories are speculation. At the end of this, we shall see what telltale does.
Well, Handsome Jack was mentioned more times, you are right about that. But, as I mention before, I think masked kidnapper identity will be … moremistery for a while and witters probably hasn't lay all the clues yet, or even introduced that person so far. So, Moxxi haven't being properly introduced kind of fits into the things the way I see it and expect it. In a couple episodes more we will pobably meet Moxxi in person. So, its kind of long game, long mystery. Handsome Jack could be red harring writters plant for episode 1. It could even turn up that Hansome Jack storyline concludes early on. Maybe as a part of next episode shocking cliffhanger. And he is totally forgotten by the time kidnapper is revealed.
Anyway, I've started new thread with my Moxxi theory so it doesnt make damage to yours as a part of same thread.
Well, considering Jack AI has made by Nakayama who was only Borderlands villain which ended by killing himself its not to be expected it really has Jack's potential. That being said, I think Jack AI already made its fatal mistake by telling Rhys that he will betray him. So, its Nakayama kind of dumb at work. Not really season long villan. Its more like writters hinting us someone's AI is falling down the stairs in next episode cliffhanger.
Anyway, even you think Jack is written off Borderland games and this is his last cameo appearance. Im just saying, like all cameo appearances, this could be very short one.
The thing is that even if Moxxi shows up later, it won't be for long enough to make a dramatic impact with new players. They won't be surpri… moresed or care. It's very likely she will be introduced, but I still think she won't be the masked person. Even if they do know, the reveal doesn't carry enough weight. "Oh, it's Moxxi, ok, next." Timothy would raise a lot more questions and excitement.
And I highly doubt Handsome Jack is a red herring. He's one of the most beloved villains in all of gaming, and this is really the last game they can use him in, since he's dead and the AI will likely be gone by the end of Tales. I think that they would want to use him to his full extent.
But all of these theories are speculation. At the end of this, we shall see what telltale does.
I thought there was an ECHO in Jack's Office of Timothy after a surgery that changed him into Handsome Jack. It may have only been the vocal change, but there was definitely some sort of surgery.
It wasn't him. Doppelganger from 2 was cloaked to look like Jack, not surgically changed.
Anyway, Handsome Jack is trully dead because AI… more was made before Jack become "handsome". So it cannot be used to make Hansome Jack, only regular, not so violent Jack.
BTW, I think respawn machines are part of Borderland story because there is one echo message by Hiperion after you used machine which clearly said you shouldn't think about fact that you died after you used machine first time and every other time it was just digital copy of youself.
Which, knowing that Burch knows the Tales story, he might have dropped that hint so that there isn't a backlash if our masked man ends up being good old Timothy. Definitely not evidence, but I always found it interesting that Burch intentially made it so we don't know what happens to Timothy. Either in Tales or Borderlands 3, I am sure that we WILL see Timothy. We already have the yet to release sixth Vault Hunter essentially confirmed for Borderlands 3- we just need to find out where Timothy goes.
To further what Dapnee said, Anthony Burch (head writer for Borderlands) also confirmed that the double you kill in BL2 isn't Timothy (during the Gearbox livestream for the Doppelganger DLC).
It could also be Felix because ,if i'm correct, Felix only had one eye and his other was some sort of magnifying glass. And he may not have died from the explosion and he had burns that he was covering up. Also, if at the part where Fiona was first telling her side of the story at one point when she is talking about the Ganglord showing up the bandit says, "That sounds familiar."
Ok, if we overlook Felix being dead there is still question how the hell he found out about Gortys project? While he was covered with 2nd degree burns from explosion? Seems highlty unlikely. He would need loads of luck to marely survive that without Sasha's or Fiona's help yet alone investigate things they newly found. So, he must knew about Gortys project before, then. How likely is that? That casts completly new shadow on that character and, frankly, makes him too complex. Unrealistically complex. He was a scammer who wanted to get rich by selling forged copy of vault key and then died (optionally). Lets stick to that.
Lilith, Timothy... how they all knew about Gortys and how they connected it with Rhys and Fiona?
Only characters we know knew about Gortys before it was found were Zer0 and Moxxi. But, Zer0 with new mask doesn't makes much sense. Why he would cover up his mask? So, it has to be Moxxi or someone new who was connected to Gortys and Atlas corporation in past by nature of his business.
Goddammit, why does this suddenly seem so plausible to me?
It would also explain why The Captor 'forgets' to ask Fiona's side of the stor… morey - he already knew it!
Zer0, Lilith, Timothy and Felix... I'm jumping on Captor theories faster than a Bandit on Scav meat!
If we assume that the past catches up with the present scenes in the 5th episode, that's still three entire episodes for new characters to find out about The Gortys Project. Literally anybody could find out about it during that time, and plan Rhys/Fiona's kidnapping accordingly.
Also, with Zer0 working for Moxxi I think it's pretty fair to speculate that the other vault hunters are working with her too (or at least some of them, they have been for the last 3 games) and are therefore aware of Atlas/the core even before Fiona and Rhys are.
As for Felix, I completely agree that it's a stretch, especially with a determinant character, but it was a theory that hasn't been brought up before and certainly warrants discussion. The fact of the matter is, you could probably make arguments for and against for almost every BL character that's ever existed being The Captor - except maybe Fiona and Rhys, themselves (unless they got themselves doppelgangers, too!)
See? The possibilities are endless... In the meantime I will happily continue to speculate! ^_^
Ok, if we overlook Felix being dead there is still question how the hell he found out about Gortys project? While he was covered with 2nd de… moregree burns from explosion? Seems highlty unlikely. He would need loads of luck to marely survive that without Sasha's or Fiona's help yet alone investigate things they newly found. So, he must knew about Gortys project before, then. How likely is that? That casts completly new shadow on that character and, frankly, makes him too complex. Unrealistically complex. He was a scammer who wanted to get rich by selling forged copy of vault key and then died (optionally). Lets stick to that.
Lilith, Timothy... how they all knew about Gortys and how they connected it with Rhys and Fiona?
Only characters we know knew about Gortys before it was found were Zer0 and Moxxi. But, Zer0 with new mask doesn't makes much sense. Why he would cover up his mask? So, it has to be Moxxi or someone new who was connected to Gortys and Atlas corporation in past by nature of his business.
I admit you are right, there is still enough time for any new character to inform himself about Gortys. But, in case of our Felix that would also mean he would need to have some other reason to follow Fiona and Rhys and eventually finds about Gortys, by purelly stalking them (that sounds as bad writing to me). Revenge? Possibly. He has reasons to avenge to Rhys because suitcase was rigged to explode on opening. Its little bit slim, because he really should blame himself there for being careless but lets say he is irrational enough to blame others rather then himself. He doesn't have any reason to be mad at Fiona, because he cannot know if she knew that or not. Anyway, he himself abandoned Fiona, so why he will hold anything agains her?
So, he is mad and vengeful to Rhys and he suddenly finds out about Gortys. And then what he does? Felix mask himself and first kidnapp Fiona (why?) and then Rhys. To hear their story, which has nothing of real importance to him, knowing already about Gortys from them and already knowing like 99% of everything Fiona told to masked person. That simply doesn't make any sense. If Felix is masked person then Fiona totally obsolite to equation on many levels. We need someone with outside knowledge of Gortys Project to be interested enough to hear both Rhys' and Fiona story for begging to the end and not someone who was large part of their story.
Plus, his sudden change from revengful Felix to business oriented Felix isn't very convincing. And almost bad writing as him finding about Gortys by stalking them for motive revenge. We would have very unconvincing villan, wanted to do one thing in one moment and then something totally different in next.
Also, for Felix to say "That sounds familiar" to Fiona's story would be too much of slip of a tongue. It's not like he is identifying with her story because his personal story is similar to hers but admitting he already know her story and thus revealing his identity.
If we assume that the past catches up with the present scenes in the 5th episode, that's still three entire episodes for new characters to f… moreind out about The Gortys Project. Literally anybody could find out about it during that time, and plan Rhys/Fiona's kidnapping accordingly.
Also, with Zer0 working for Moxxi I think it's pretty fair to speculate that the other vault hunters are working with her too (or at least some of them, they have been for the last 3 games) and are therefore aware of Atlas/the core even before Fiona and Rhys are.
As for Felix, I completely agree that it's a stretch, especially with a determinant character, but it was a theory that hasn't been brought up before and certainly warrants discussion. The fact of the matter is, you could probably make arguments for and against for almost every BL character that's ever existed being The Captor - except maybe Fiona and Rhys, themselves (unless they got themselves doppelg… [view original content]
Ah, but this is Pandora and he is a conman, and they are always after their next big job... and it doesn't get much bigger than a vault (which we know Gortys leads to)! And he may not know the whole story, especially the events we've yet to see, so kidnapping them would be a way to get closer to the vault, they've clearly got/are going to get some sort of insider information from Jack.
BUT I definitely agree that the whole "following them for revenge, then discovering his next pay-day, then kidnapping them/dragging Rhys through the piping hot desert" thing does seem pretty implausible to someone who's just survived(?) a bomb exploding in their face and presumably has horrific burns to a fair portion of their body... Even if the suit does resemble the compression suits worn by burn victims (that was a joke... I think... I do love a good conspiracy).
I admit you are right, there is still enough time for any new character to inform himself about Gortys. But, in case of our Felix that would… more also mean he would need to have some other reason to follow Fiona and Rhys and eventually finds about Gortys, by purelly stalking them (that sounds as bad writing to me). Revenge? Possibly. He has reasons to avenge to Rhys because suitcase was rigged to explode on opening. Its little bit slim, because he really should blame himself there for being careless but lets say he is irrational enough to blame others rather then himself. He doesn't have any reason to be mad at Fiona, because he cannot know if she knew that or not. Anyway, he himself abandoned Fiona, so why he will hold anything agains her?
So, he is mad and vengeful to Rhys and he suddenly finds out about Gortys. And then what he does? Felix mask himself and first kidnapp Fiona (why?) and then Rhys. To hear their story, which has nothing of re… [view original content]
I agree, he has motives to do it but same character switching motives.. its just bad writing man... he kind of fits it, being at the same time at the same place when Gortys was discovered but he had too much knowledge about it, specially Fiona's story so no need to investigate that route. So, he kind of doesn't fits at all. Person who kidnapped them doesn't have so much info about Rhys/Fiona and knows about Gortys some other way. I guess kidnapper has some part of Gortys project story we are yet to find out. Gortys seems to be about finding another vault but what about key? Is Gortys core that key? If so, then its some Atlas build vault but it has same vault symbol as other vault which were build by aliens.
Too many question about Gortys someone needs to answer before this vault is actually open. I guess masked person needs to have some of those answers simply to move story forwards. And thats where suspects like Felix and Timothy fails. They are not that kind of insight giving characters at all. Moxxi on other hand is. Moxxi is friendly. She will make Rhys and Fiona part of her plans eventually. Maybe its not her, maybe its someone completly new. Like Croocked Man in Wolf Among Us. But from all characters we met previously Moxxi fits the most what I expect from masked kidnapper at the end. Not just to be solution to the mystery but also to move story forward. Moxxi was doing that in the past. Specially in Borderlands Pre Sequel.
Ah, but this is Pandora and he is a conman, and they are always after their next big job... and it doesn't get much bigger than a vault (whi… morech we know Gortys leads to)! And he may not know the whole story, especially the events we've yet to see, so kidnapping them would be a way to get closer to the vault, they've clearly got/are going to get some sort of insider information from Jack.
BUT I definitely agree that the whole "following them for revenge, then discovering his next pay-day, then kidnapping them/dragging Rhys through the piping hot desert" thing does seem pretty implausible to someone who's just survived(?) a bomb exploding in their face and presumably has horrific burns to a fair portion of their body... Even if the suit does resemble the compression suits worn by burn victims (that was a joke... I think... I do love a good conspiracy).
While I agree that Moxxi is a logical choice as far as furthering the story etc, the main thing for me, against her, is that she just doesn't do her own dirty work. She has a team of loyal vault hunters to do that for her (like Zer0 in the first ep, and all the other times in the main games). I don't doubt that she could be the puppet master behind the captor, I just don't think she's physically that person.
And yes, it could definitely be someone new/someone we're yet to meet - rendering all of this speculation completely worthless (but still fun, in the meantime)!
I agree, he has motives to do it but same character switching motives.. its just bad writing man... he kind of fits it, being at the same ti… moreme at the same place when Gortys was discovered but he had too much knowledge about it, specially Fiona's story so no need to investigate that route. So, he kind of doesn't fits at all. Person who kidnapped them doesn't have so much info about Rhys/Fiona and knows about Gortys some other way. I guess kidnapper has some part of Gortys project story we are yet to find out. Gortys seems to be about finding another vault but what about key? Is Gortys core that key? If so, then its some Atlas build vault but it has same vault symbol as other vault which were build by aliens.
Too many question about Gortys someone needs to answer before this vault is actually open. I guess masked person needs to have some of those answers simply to move story forwards. And thats where suspects like Felix and Timothy fails. T… [view original content]
Yes, but there is couple of resons she could make exception in this case. Both Rhys and Fiona are no more then two scammers. She can see them as low treat and high info. Vault Hunters, as may be resourceful in difficult situation, they may not be right persons to handle situations that needing common smart. Zer0 for one failed that kind of situation when he leave scene and left Rhys and Fiona to find Gortys on they own. Real reason Moxxi entering scene is to repair situation Zer0 as vault hunter already failed. Also, she may be undecisive regarding Rhys and Fiona fate. She may want to hear their story from their lips so she can decide if she can trust them or not. With vault hunters at work she doesnt have that. She would have vault hunter decision. And vault hunter already made wrong choice regarding Gortys. So, she kind of entering scene because she decided is not so diffucult job, plus its kind of situation that need her personal engagement. Because no one from vault hunters is really not smart listener the way she is. She is kind of Pandora's Mata Hara. Gathering info by playing whore and then pulling of her vault hunter schemes.
She involves her personaly because this is all about getting right informations and making right judgement for next phase of the game.
While I agree that Moxxi is a logical choice as far as furthering the story etc, the main thing for me, against her, is that she just doesn'… moret do her own dirty work. She has a team of loyal vault hunters to do that for her (like Zer0 in the first ep, and all the other times in the main games). I don't doubt that she could be the puppet master behind the captor, I just don't think she's physically that person.
And yes, it could definitely be someone new/someone we're yet to meet - rendering all of this speculation completely worthless (but still fun, in the meantime)!
Yes, but there is couple of resons she could make exception in this case. Both Rhys and Fiona are no more then two scammers. She can see the… morem as low treat and high info. Vault Hunters, as may be resourceful in difficult situation, they may not be right persons to handle situations that needing common smart. Zer0 for one failed that kind of situation when he leave scene and left Rhys and Fiona to find Gortys on they own. Real reason Moxxi entering scene is to repair situation Zer0 as vault hunter already failed. Also, she may be undecisive regarding Rhys and Fiona fate. She may want to hear their story from their lips so she can decide if she can trust them or not. With vault hunters at work she doesnt have that. She would have vault hunter decision. And vault hunter already made wrong choice regarding Gortys. So, she kind of entering scene because she decided is not so diffucult job, plus its kind of situation that need her personal engagemen… [view original content]
Also, remember how Moxxi reacted when she heard Zer0 reporting there is no Gortys on scene. She pays him up with weapon she promised anyway. Like his job is finished and he provided her with Gortys, even not knowing. While talking on walkie. Like she is nearby.
Both those things, kind of, suggesting her taking the job from that point.
Also, remember how Moxxi reacted when she heard Zer0 reporting there is no Gortys on scene. She pays him up with weapon she promised anyway.… more Like his job is finished and he provided her with Gortys, even not knowing. While talking on walkie. Like she is nearby.
Both those things, kind of, suggesting her taking the job from that point.
I don't think anyone on Pandora wears masks pointlessly- the Marauder's wear it to hide their face so they don't get caught, and the psychos… more where them to try and bring themselves closer to the Vault. I wouldn't be surprised if we meet the masked man in Tales from the Borderlands- though they'd need to introduce the character by at least the end of the second episode.
Hum, I chose to warn Felix about the bomb, so he escaped. But not sure what happened if you chose not to warn him. If he died, then this would not be possible.
An interesting theory by someone on tumblr (I wouldn't delve too far into their account if you know what I mean, but the link only has the theory post in it) where they made some observations that the masked person shares a few characteristics of Vaughn. (I'm going to paraphrase it here cause why not.)
The masked person's outfit calls back to Vaughn's outfit in terms of the armband and yellow buckle thing.
The masked individual has a Hyperion shotgun, the Conference Call. (Hyperion weapons usually have a terrible sway, and this is probably not the best shotgun to be doing interrogations with, as if you meant to, I dunno, shoot off a round over someones head it could very much hit the person as the sway would only lower after a few shells are used.) Height wise, Vaughn is slightly shorter than Rhys, just like our masked person. They both also have a problem with hunching over, a common issue with being on a computer day in and out, or accounting, where you're always looking over something on a desk.
Another wonderful point they brought up was the transition between when the group is in the caravan and Fiona, Sasha, and Felix are wondering what to do with Rhys and Vaughn. Vaughn is pacing and when the camera focuses on him for a bit, the masked person takes his place, continuing to pace as Rhys asks Fiona "what they did to them". They speak of a motive being something of Rhys screwing the group over quite a bit to get Vaughn to do this, but I'm kind of on the fence on that. Everything else they brought up was pretty much on point.
Something I've kind of also picked up is the outfit is black and red, and seems to be rather old and seems almost a bit impractical for any use other than hiding within, possibly being an older engineer suit used by Hyperion prior to maybe even the creation of Helios.The mask itself doesn't fit the suit, as it seems a bit weird to only have one eyepiece in the center. It wouldn't allow for a wide field of view, something I'm sure is a very valuable tool on a trigger happy planet such as Pandora. The hat on top also isn't really helpful for the half desert that is Pandora, as it would be more at home in rainy areas, keeping the rain from falling on the wearer's face, or in sunny areas, where an individual would need to keep the sun out of their eyes, which defeats the purpose of the mask and suit entirely.
I'd rather it not be Vaughn however. Like, someone else from Hyperion, but not Vaughn, it just feels weird. But maybe my view on that will change after the next episode (and we figure out WHO hit Vaughn).
Wow, just watched that transition moment (9:28 in the video below), and that would be some crazy foreshadowing on TT's part (as well as the outfit similarities).
Now I'm just trying to imagine a plot line that would justify Vaughn being The Stranger - a long con between him and Rhys to screw over Fiona? Rhys betrays him? He betrays Rhys? HJ has taken complete control of Rhys?
An interesting theory by someone on tumblr (I wouldn't delve too far into their account if you know what I mean, but the link only has the t… moreheory post in it) where they made some observations that the masked person shares a few characteristics of Vaughn. (I'm going to paraphrase it here cause why not.)
The masked person's outfit calls back to Vaughn's outfit in terms of the armband and yellow buckle thing.
The masked individual has a Hyperion shotgun, the Conference Call. (Hyperion weapons usually have a terrible sway, and this is probably not the best shotgun to be doing interrogations with, as if you meant to, I dunno, shoot off a round over someones head it could very much hit the person as the sway would only lower after a few shells are used.) Height wise, Vaughn is slightly shorter than Rhys, just like our masked person. They both also have a problem with hunching over, a common issue with being on a computer day in and out, or … [view original content]
Wow, just watched that transition moment (9:28 in the video below), and that would be some crazy foreshadowing on TT's part (as well as the … moreoutfit similarities).
Now I'm just trying to imagine a plot line that would justify Vaughn being The Stranger - a long con between him and Rhys to screw over Fiona? Rhys betrays him? He betrays Rhys? HJ has taken complete control of Rhys?
Hmm, very interesting...
Click here to go straight to the scene at 9:28
Nope, it was actually an engineer wearing a digital disguise if you look at his corpse afterward. The surgically-altered body double's REAL location is still unknown.
Comments
They make a trap for the maskes man and then like in scooby doo they tell who it is and lift the mask to reveal!......The skag that they ran over at the start!
The wiki states that when killing the body double in BL2 that, "The double's illusory façade deactivates after his pocket watch is stolen, revealing the features of an Engineer."* Another reason it probably isn't is the two have different voice actors, I'm sure they'd keep that the same. (Plus the body double's lines are five times more cheesy than Timothy's.)
*link to the wiki article
Well, if OPs has right assumptions about motives for masked man to hide his face then I think its far more likely that person not to be MAN at all but WOMAN. Those bulky clothes and voice modulator can really be more suitable to hide slim woman anathomy and female voice.
And, if we assume that masked man is really a woman we already know only one woman well aware about "Gortys Project" and that's MOXXI!!! In episode 1 Moxxi sent Zero to retrieve Gortys for her, which was apparent from walkie conversation at the end of episode.
So, if masked person is already familiar to us Moxxi far better candidate then Timothy because:
1) Mask is oriented to cover her female voice and make her bulky.
2) She is only person that we actually know that's familiar with Gortys, aside from Zero. It kind of makes more sense masked person motives be related to Gortys Project then to Handsome Jack. Even Handsome Jack involvement is about Gortys, which he states loud and clear. And, no matter how Handsome Jack being popular, all Boderlands games were about vaults (and thats what's Gortys really all about), so no point to presume this one will not.
3) She can have knowledge abouth both Rhys and Fiona bacause of Zero's involvement.
4) Once she found Zero failed to track Gortys its makes very logical to step herself into the game and hunt only two person she is aware that has knowledge about Gortys.
5) Episode 1 title is "Zero Sum" which kind empasys and limits Zero's role mainly on episode 1. So, its kind of logical to presume he already played his role in serial at this part and further on his employer Moxxi will be personaly involved in that storyline.
To further what Dapnee said, Anthony Burch (head writer for Borderlands) also confirmed that the double you kill in BL2 isn't Timothy (during the Gearbox livestream for the Doppelganger DLC).
As I posted in another thread, as soon as I realised The Captor was using gender-neutral pronouns, Moxxi shot to my top list of suspects (for the reasons you have so eloquently stated), but, part of me thinks there's just no way she could strap her chest down that much:
Jack doesn't call her Ol' Balloon Tits for nothing!
I dont see a problem there. That bulky anti-radiation suit can hide anything under wraps. Even huge tits. She could even be pregnant in that suit and it will not show.
She had motives, she had means, she had knowledge. Timing is right. Everything is happening in the future, after Zero plan failed.
Only con for theory Moxxi did it is that it's too apparent, too many pros.
One more pro for Moxxi theory and con for Timothy theory:
When Fiona is telling hers story she says they wanted to make vault key scam their last deal, something that will makes them rich till rest of their lives. And masked person comments "That sounds familiar" which can mean some kind of personal identification to that kind of deals. Which is, kind of, Moxxi's modus operandi. And something Timothy, as he is only Handsome Jack's double and not real Jack, lacks off completly. It would be very weird thing for him to say, I think.
One more pro for Moxxi theory and con for Timothy theory:
When Fiona is telling hers story she says they wanted to make vault key scam their last deal, something that will makes them rich till rest of their lives. And masked person comments "That sounds familiar" which can mean some kind of personal identification to that kind of deals. Which is, kind of, Moxxi's modus operandi. And something Timothy, as he is only Handsome Jack's double and not real Jack, lacks off completly. It would be very weird thing for him to say, I think.
I could of sworn they were indicating that Fiona and Rhys' stories started similarly, but that could be true too.
But Fiona doesnt know how Rhys' story started, she was present only at the end of him telling it.
Nor masked person can presume that he knows Rhys well enough from before so that comment actually makes sense.
Not he is addressing it to Rhys or talking to himself. He is addressing to Fiona. So, it has to be personal. Imagine it not said though that voice modulator making voice to sound mechanical but to be said with Moxxi's own voice.
And there you have very personal confession.
That's how I took it as well, but after DrNorrington's comment I freely admit I could be wrong.
Reading this, there's one thing I have to state as a con for the Moxxi theory and pro for Timothy.
Timothy makes more sense from a writing standpoint. What I mean by that is that we know that while telltale absolutely wants to make connections to other Borderlands games, it also wants to still be able to appeal to an audience of people who have never played borderlands. That being said, we know telltale love their big reveals, and the masked person will likely be one of them.
Now, imagine this from a perspective of someone who has played none of the past borderlands games. Moxxi is barely mentioned. She appears on a poster, and says three lines to Zer0 without her face being shown or name being said. Compare that to Handsome Jack. So far, the whole game has been HANDSOME JACK HANDSOME JACK HANDSOME JACK. He's mentioned every time he can be. Even new people know who he is now, whereas they might not even know who Moxxi is. So it makes far more sense for the masked person to be able to surprise and intrigue everyone, rather than just some people.
Which makes it far more likely to be Timothy.
Well, Handsome Jack was mentioned more times, you are right about that. But, as I mention before, I think masked kidnapper identity will be mistery for a while and witters probably hasn't lay all the clues yet, or even introduced that person so far. So, Moxxi haven't being properly introduced kind of fits into the things the way I see it and expect it. In a couple episodes more we will pobably meet Moxxi in person. So, its kind of long game, long mystery. Handsome Jack could be red harring writters plant for episode 1. It could even turn up that Hansome Jack storyline concludes early on. Maybe as a part of next episode shocking cliffhanger. And he is totally forgotten by the time kidnapper is revealed.
Anyway, I've started new thread with my Moxxi theory so it doesnt make damage to yours as a part of same thread.
The thing is that even if Moxxi shows up later, it won't be for long enough to make a dramatic impact with new players. They won't be surprised or care. It's very likely she will be introduced, but I still think she won't be the masked person. Even if they do know, the reveal doesn't carry enough weight. "Oh, it's Moxxi, ok, next." Timothy would raise a lot more questions and excitement.
And I highly doubt Handsome Jack is a red herring. He's one of the most beloved villains in all of gaming, and this is really the last game they can use him in, since he's dead and the AI will likely be gone by the end of Tales. I think that they would want to use him to his full extent.
But all of these theories are speculation. At the end of this, we shall see what telltale does.
Well, considering Jack AI has made by Nakayama who was only Borderlands villain which ended by killing himself its not to be expected it really has Jack's potential. That being said, I think Jack AI already made its fatal mistake by telling Rhys that he will betray him. So, its Nakayama kind of dumb at work. Not really season long villan. Its more like writters hinting us someone's AI is falling down the stairs in next episode cliffhanger.
Anyway, even you think Jack is written off Borderland games and this is his last cameo appearance. Im just saying, like all cameo appearances, this could be very short one.
Whelp, time for Telltale to pull a Wolf Among Us and delay Episode 2 for 6 months because they have to re-write the plot.
I thought there was an ECHO in Jack's Office of Timothy after a surgery that changed him into Handsome Jack. It may have only been the vocal change, but there was definitely some sort of surgery.
Which, knowing that Burch knows the Tales story, he might have dropped that hint so that there isn't a backlash if our masked man ends up being good old Timothy. Definitely not evidence, but I always found it interesting that Burch intentially made it so we don't know what happens to Timothy. Either in Tales or Borderlands 3, I am sure that we WILL see Timothy. We already have the yet to release sixth Vault Hunter essentially confirmed for Borderlands 3- we just need to find out where Timothy goes.
It could also be Felix because ,if i'm correct, Felix only had one eye and his other was some sort of magnifying glass. And he may not have died from the explosion and he had burns that he was covering up. Also, if at the part where Fiona was first telling her side of the story at one point when she is talking about the Ganglord showing up the bandit says, "That sounds familiar."
Goddammit, why does this suddenly seem so plausible to me?
It would also explain why The Captor 'forgets' to ask Fiona's side of the story - he already knew it!
Zer0, Lilith, Timothy and Felix... I'm jumping on Captor theories faster than a Bandit on Scav meat!
Ok, if we overlook Felix being dead there is still question how the hell he found out about Gortys project? While he was covered with 2nd degree burns from explosion? Seems highlty unlikely. He would need loads of luck to marely survive that without Sasha's or Fiona's help yet alone investigate things they newly found. So, he must knew about Gortys project before, then. How likely is that? That casts completly new shadow on that character and, frankly, makes him too complex. Unrealistically complex. He was a scammer who wanted to get rich by selling forged copy of vault key and then died (optionally). Lets stick to that.
Lilith, Timothy... how they all knew about Gortys and how they connected it with Rhys and Fiona?
Only characters we know knew about Gortys before it was found were Zer0 and Moxxi. But, Zer0 with new mask doesn't makes much sense. Why he would cover up his mask? So, it has to be Moxxi or someone new who was connected to Gortys and Atlas corporation in past by nature of his business.
If we assume that the past catches up with the present scenes in the 5th episode, that's still three entire episodes for new characters to find out about The Gortys Project. Literally anybody could find out about it during that time, and plan Rhys/Fiona's kidnapping accordingly.
Also, with Zer0 working for Moxxi I think it's pretty fair to speculate that the other vault hunters are working with her too (or at least some of them, they have been for the last 3 games) and are therefore aware of Atlas/the core even before Fiona and Rhys are.
As for Felix, I completely agree that it's a stretch, especially with a determinant character, but it was a theory that hasn't been brought up before and certainly warrants discussion. The fact of the matter is, you could probably make arguments for and against for almost every BL character that's ever existed being The Captor - except maybe Fiona and Rhys, themselves (unless they got themselves doppelgangers, too!)
See? The possibilities are endless... In the meantime I will happily continue to speculate! ^_^
I admit you are right, there is still enough time for any new character to inform himself about Gortys. But, in case of our Felix that would also mean he would need to have some other reason to follow Fiona and Rhys and eventually finds about Gortys, by purelly stalking them (that sounds as bad writing to me). Revenge? Possibly. He has reasons to avenge to Rhys because suitcase was rigged to explode on opening. Its little bit slim, because he really should blame himself there for being careless but lets say he is irrational enough to blame others rather then himself. He doesn't have any reason to be mad at Fiona, because he cannot know if she knew that or not. Anyway, he himself abandoned Fiona, so why he will hold anything agains her?
So, he is mad and vengeful to Rhys and he suddenly finds out about Gortys. And then what he does? Felix mask himself and first kidnapp Fiona (why?) and then Rhys. To hear their story, which has nothing of real importance to him, knowing already about Gortys from them and already knowing like 99% of everything Fiona told to masked person. That simply doesn't make any sense. If Felix is masked person then Fiona totally obsolite to equation on many levels. We need someone with outside knowledge of Gortys Project to be interested enough to hear both Rhys' and Fiona story for begging to the end and not someone who was large part of their story.
Plus, his sudden change from revengful Felix to business oriented Felix isn't very convincing. And almost bad writing as him finding about Gortys by stalking them for motive revenge. We would have very unconvincing villan, wanted to do one thing in one moment and then something totally different in next.
Also, for Felix to say "That sounds familiar" to Fiona's story would be too much of slip of a tongue. It's not like he is identifying with her story because his personal story is similar to hers but admitting he already know her story and thus revealing his identity.
Somehow I dont see all this happening.
Ah, but this is Pandora and he is a conman, and they are always after their next big job... and it doesn't get much bigger than a vault (which we know Gortys leads to)! And he may not know the whole story, especially the events we've yet to see, so kidnapping them would be a way to get closer to the vault, they've clearly got/are going to get some sort of insider information from Jack.
BUT I definitely agree that the whole "following them for revenge, then discovering his next pay-day, then kidnapping them/dragging Rhys through the piping hot desert" thing does seem pretty implausible to someone who's just survived(?) a bomb exploding in their face and presumably has horrific burns to a fair portion of their body... Even if the suit does resemble the compression suits worn by burn victims (that was a joke... I think... I do love a good conspiracy).
I agree, he has motives to do it but same character switching motives.. its just bad writing man... he kind of fits it, being at the same time at the same place when Gortys was discovered but he had too much knowledge about it, specially Fiona's story so no need to investigate that route. So, he kind of doesn't fits at all. Person who kidnapped them doesn't have so much info about Rhys/Fiona and knows about Gortys some other way. I guess kidnapper has some part of Gortys project story we are yet to find out. Gortys seems to be about finding another vault but what about key? Is Gortys core that key? If so, then its some Atlas build vault but it has same vault symbol as other vault which were build by aliens.
Too many question about Gortys someone needs to answer before this vault is actually open. I guess masked person needs to have some of those answers simply to move story forwards. And thats where suspects like Felix and Timothy fails. They are not that kind of insight giving characters at all. Moxxi on other hand is. Moxxi is friendly. She will make Rhys and Fiona part of her plans eventually. Maybe its not her, maybe its someone completly new. Like Croocked Man in Wolf Among Us. But from all characters we met previously Moxxi fits the most what I expect from masked kidnapper at the end. Not just to be solution to the mystery but also to move story forward. Moxxi was doing that in the past. Specially in Borderlands Pre Sequel.
While I agree that Moxxi is a logical choice as far as furthering the story etc, the main thing for me, against her, is that she just doesn't do her own dirty work. She has a team of loyal vault hunters to do that for her (like Zer0 in the first ep, and all the other times in the main games). I don't doubt that she could be the puppet master behind the captor, I just don't think she's physically that person.
And yes, it could definitely be someone new/someone we're yet to meet - rendering all of this speculation completely worthless (but still fun, in the meantime)!
Yes, but there is couple of resons she could make exception in this case. Both Rhys and Fiona are no more then two scammers. She can see them as low treat and high info. Vault Hunters, as may be resourceful in difficult situation, they may not be right persons to handle situations that needing common smart. Zer0 for one failed that kind of situation when he leave scene and left Rhys and Fiona to find Gortys on they own. Real reason Moxxi entering scene is to repair situation Zer0 as vault hunter already failed. Also, she may be undecisive regarding Rhys and Fiona fate. She may want to hear their story from their lips so she can decide if she can trust them or not. With vault hunters at work she doesnt have that. She would have vault hunter decision. And vault hunter already made wrong choice regarding Gortys. So, she kind of entering scene because she decided is not so diffucult job, plus its kind of situation that need her personal engagement. Because no one from vault hunters is really not smart listener the way she is. She is kind of Pandora's Mata Hara. Gathering info by playing whore and then pulling of her vault hunter schemes.
She involves her personaly because this is all about getting right informations and making right judgement for next phase of the game.
Hmm, fair points.
...I may be back on the Moxxi train (while still simultaneously being on about four other character's trains - I'm hedging my bets)!
Also, remember how Moxxi reacted when she heard Zer0 reporting there is no Gortys on scene. She pays him up with weapon she promised anyway. Like his job is finished and he provided her with Gortys, even not knowing. While talking on walkie. Like she is nearby.
Both those things, kind of, suggesting her taking the job from that point.
according to shade in the dlc they can see through your echo(At least if they hack it)
how psychos mask gets them closed to the vault and what leaded you to think that, im really intressted in hearing this
Thanks for this theory. Made my day, hope you're right. ^_^
Hum, I chose to warn Felix about the bomb, so he escaped. But not sure what happened if you chose not to warn him. If he died, then this would not be possible.
An interesting theory by someone on tumblr (I wouldn't delve too far into their account if you know what I mean, but the link only has the theory post in it) where they made some observations that the masked person shares a few characteristics of Vaughn. (I'm going to paraphrase it here cause why not.)
The masked person's outfit calls back to Vaughn's outfit in terms of the armband and yellow buckle thing.
The masked individual has a Hyperion shotgun, the Conference Call. (Hyperion weapons usually have a terrible sway, and this is probably not the best shotgun to be doing interrogations with, as if you meant to, I dunno, shoot off a round over someones head it could very much hit the person as the sway would only lower after a few shells are used.) Height wise, Vaughn is slightly shorter than Rhys, just like our masked person. They both also have a problem with hunching over, a common issue with being on a computer day in and out, or accounting, where you're always looking over something on a desk.
Another wonderful point they brought up was the transition between when the group is in the caravan and Fiona, Sasha, and Felix are wondering what to do with Rhys and Vaughn. Vaughn is pacing and when the camera focuses on him for a bit, the masked person takes his place, continuing to pace as Rhys asks Fiona "what they did to them". They speak of a motive being something of Rhys screwing the group over quite a bit to get Vaughn to do this, but I'm kind of on the fence on that. Everything else they brought up was pretty much on point.
Something I've kind of also picked up is the outfit is black and red, and seems to be rather old and seems almost a bit impractical for any use other than hiding within, possibly being an older engineer suit used by Hyperion prior to maybe even the creation of Helios.The mask itself doesn't fit the suit, as it seems a bit weird to only have one eyepiece in the center. It wouldn't allow for a wide field of view, something I'm sure is a very valuable tool on a trigger happy planet such as Pandora. The hat on top also isn't really helpful for the half desert that is Pandora, as it would be more at home in rainy areas, keeping the rain from falling on the wearer's face, or in sunny areas, where an individual would need to keep the sun out of their eyes, which defeats the purpose of the mask and suit entirely.
I'd rather it not be Vaughn however. Like, someone else from Hyperion, but not Vaughn, it just feels weird. But maybe my view on that will change after the next episode (and we figure out WHO hit Vaughn).
Wow, just watched that transition moment (9:28 in the video below), and that would be some crazy foreshadowing on TT's part (as well as the outfit similarities).
Now I'm just trying to imagine a plot line that would justify Vaughn being The Stranger - a long con between him and Rhys to screw over Fiona? Rhys betrays him? He betrays Rhys? HJ has taken complete control of Rhys?
Hmm, very interesting...
Click here to go straight to the scene at 9:28
Probably lot more yet another red herring on TT's part we overlooked until now.
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Timothy dies in borderlands 2 as the vault hunters have to kill him so thats what happens after the pre sequel to "doppleganger"
Nope, it was actually an engineer wearing a digital disguise if you look at his corpse afterward. The surgically-altered body double's REAL location is still unknown.
timothy is killed in borderlands 2 by the player