I'm not intending to add any more to the argument, but I'd just like to repeat it's a lot harder than one might think to actually create a good translation of something, especially something that might use a lot of idioms and word play like the comedy in Monkey Island often does.
Secondly, it's not just translating into one language. If Telltale were to release a multilingual edition it would have to be for all 5 standard multi-languages in U.S. PC releases (English, Spanish, French, German, Italian) simultaneously.
So just saying it doesn't take that long to translate into German is ignoring a large part of the process.
I'm not intending to add any more to the argument, but I'd just like to repeat that they colud waited to enounce the release of the game...
We waited many years for this game (and i had lost all the hopes for a next episode of MI) and we could waited other times (especially if we didn't know that the TellTale work about this)...
I don't understand this hurry, they had all the times that they wanted to enounce the release, and add the subtitles (ENG-ITA-SPA-DEU-FRA)...
I'm not intending to add any more to the argument, but I'd just like to repeat that they colud waited to enounce the release of the game...
We waited many years for this game (and i had lost all the hopes for a next episode of MI) and we could waited other times (especially if we didn't know that the TellTale work about this)...
I don't understand this hurry, they had all the times that they wanted to enounce the release, and add the subtitles (ENG-ITA-SPA-DEU-FRA)...
Except, that Telltale is working on an episodic game schedule (the 'complete' Tales of Monkey Island won't be done for another 5-6 months). Basically you're asking why Telltale didn't go against the business model they've been using for the past few years. I always find it weird when people criticize the production of a game when they don't even bother to take into account how the production process works.
When releasing episodic games, the release date of not only the first episode but all the remaining episodes is really important. If you have a longer wait than a month there's a good chance that not as many people will buy the next episode. Having to do each episode in 5 languages would most likely take more than a month to do, hurting the sales of the future episodes. The timing between episode releases is very important.
Also, I'm sure there was some form of - I don't want to say pressure - but 'incentive' to have the first episode of Tales come out around the same time as Secret of Monkey Island: Special Edition. LucasArts does still own the rights after all.
Plus, if you don't mind waiting, then what's the difference that you'll be waiting for the subtitles? If they had waited to announce MI just so they could program subtitles then you'd be getting the game later than July 7th anyway. You seem to be complaining only because the English release is first. No one really doubts that a localization won't be coming in the future seeings as there has been ones for past TellTale games.
If you have a game ready to go in one language, it makes sense to release it (financially, especially for a small company like TellTale and for a genre that's not as popular as it was 10-20 years ago) then to hold off and wait for the other language versions to be completed. It secures revenue to continue releasing the later episodes, to allow it to be localized, and to test the market's reaction to the game.
Except, that Telltale is working on an episodic game schedule (the 'complete' Tales of Monkey Island won't be done for another 5-6 months). Basically you're asking why Telltale didn't go against the business model they've been using for the past few years. I always find it weird when people criticize the production of a game when they don't even bother to take into account how the production process works.
When releasing episodic games, the release date of not only the first episode but all the remaining episodes is really important. If you have a longer wait than a month there's a good chance that not as many people will buy the next episode. Having to do each episode in 5 languages would most likely take more than a month to do, hurting the sales of the future episodes. The timing between episode releases is very important.
Also, I'm sure there was some form of - I don't want to say pressure - but 'incentive' to have the first episode of Tales come out around the same time as Secret of Monkey Island: Special Edition. LucasArts does still own the rights after all.
Plus, if you don't mind waiting, then what's the difference that you'll be waiting for the subtitles? If they had waited to announce MI just so they could program subtitles then you'd be getting the game later than July 7th anyway. You seem to be complaining only because the English release is first. No one really doubts that a localization won't be coming in the future seeings as there has been ones for past TellTale games.
If you have a game ready to go in one language, it makes sense to release it (financially, especially for a small company like TellTale and for a genre that's not as popular as it was 10-20 years ago) then to hold off and wait for the other language versions to be completed. It secures revenue to continue releasing the later episodes, to allow it to be localized, and to test the market's reaction to the game.
Sorry, but really do you think that they 've done only the first episode??? Now they are ready for all the 5 episodes, but their policy is that release one episode for a mounth, and now they are working to prepare the game for the digital delivery or other little problems.
It's natural that they can't do a game (also if it's short like 5 or 6 hours of play) in a months, then why don't wait that the game was ready with subtitles??? I repeat me, also WALLACE & GORMIT!?!??! Why this step behind??? It was a mark of respect for all the fans of MI of the world!!!
An interpreter for translate "Monkey Island" you find it also for free and that's a work not over a week for each language!!!
It's impossible that they are so poor that are forced to sell now the game to avoid bankruptcy! Came on!
I like so much this games (it's my favourite of alla time) that i can't wait, and i don't want wait, and i want the cover painted by Steve Purcell, but i can't, you think that is right?
HELP ME PLEASE. Last day for advance sales of TOMI, what do?
-1- Book TOMI with its bonus ... but in English and can not play until the version in Italian with the probability of having to re-buy
-2 - Wait for the Italian version that it will take months and no bonus! HELP DO THAT PLEASE ?????
HELP ME PLEASE. Last day for advance sales of TOMI, what do?
-1- Book TOMI with its bonus ... but in English and can not play until the version in Italian with the probability of having to re-buy
-2 - Wait for the Italian version that it will take months and no bonus! HELP DO THAT PLEASE ?????
Dude, english is not that hard. Buy the MI with the bonus, and get an english dictionary. That's how we all learned english in my family, from adventure games! Really!
HELP ME PLEASE. Last day for advance sales of TOMI, what do?
-1- Book TOMI with its bonus ... but in English and can not play until the version in Italian with the probability of having to re-buy
-2 - Wait for the Italian version that it will take months and no bonus! HELP DO THAT PLEASE ?????
We have to wait, i don't buy the game in english because i don't enjoy it in other language! :mad:
This is my advice...
HELP ME PLEASE. Last day for advance sales of TOMI, what do?
-1- Book TOMI with its bonus ... but in English and can not play until the version in Italian with the probability of having to re-buy
-2 - Wait for the Italian version that it will take months and no bonus! HELP DO THAT PLEASE ?????
The Telltale team has an official give me advice for my question?
Please answer!
Sorry, but really do you think that they 've done only the first episode??? Now they are ready for all the 5 episodes, but their policy is that release one episode for a mounth, and now they are working to prepare the game for the digital delivery or other little problems.
Are you kidding? Go read the other forum threads, go learn how episodic games are made. They do not have all 5 episodes done. In fact, they are probably just finishing voice recordings for the 2nd episode now. I'd be surprised if they even have the last episode written. What they have is the engine done, puzzles planned, over-all story mapped out. They haven't already made all 5 episodes and then decide to release it monthly, they continue to make all 5 episodes throughout the whole time. What do whole seasons of TV shows finish filming before they air the first episode... no.
It's obvious you have no idea how an episodic production schedule works. It's no wonder all your posts only sound like you're complaining and insulting TellTale.
An interpreter for translate "Monkey Island" you find it also for free and that's a work not over a week for each language!!!
Yes, yes, that's right you can get professional quality translations done for free, *rolls eyes*. So, you also have no idea how localizations are done. If it's so easy for translations why don't you do them then? Even if someone is translating between two languages they are fluent in, localization also involves finding appropriate substitutions for idioms and wordplay that can't be translated in addition to cultural references that another country might not understand.
Not to mention the amount of dialogue in a Monkey Island game, it's not like translating a first person shooter...
Srsly stop bumping this thread and give fuel to these absolute donkeys. They just wanna be emotional and stir up trouble, they're not suspectible to reason.
Are you kidding? Go read the other forum threads, go learn how episodic games are made. They do not have all 5 episodes done. In fact, they are probably just finishing voice recordings for the 2nd episode now. I'd be surprised if they even have the last episode written. What they have is the engine done, puzzles planned, over-all story mapped out. They haven't already made all 5 episodes and then decide to release it monthly, they continue to make all 5 episodes throughout the whole time. What do whole seasons of TV shows finish filming before they air the first episode... no.
It's obvious you have no idea how an episodic production schedule works. It's no wonder all your posts only sound like you're complaining and insulting TellTale.
Yes, yes, that's right you can get professional quality translations done for free, *rolls eyes*. So, you also have no idea how localizations are done. If it's so easy for translations why don't you do them then? Even if someone is translating between two languages they are fluent in, localization also involves finding appropriate substitutions for idioms and wordplay that can't be translated in addition to cultural references that another country might not understand.
Not to mention the amount of dialogue in a Monkey Island game, it's not like translating a first person shooter...
Well, I'm sorry you don't want to wait. *rolls eyes*
ilcapitano10 may have exaggerated his part but you're exaggerating on the other side. so by industry experts that the location does not cost more than 8-900 dollars per language, if not produced in different languages Tomi is why did not want to do. Wallace and Gromit has been translated probably because their target customer is less than 18 years and you see a teenager today with translating vocabulary? Tomi has a target of higher age and therefore of people who may have already studied English enough. And even the quality of the subtitles do not think that this great problem if there are historical notes could not understand them either in English or other languages, however, Wallace and Gromit has been translated into Italian and other languages and then use the same translator, right? .
You'd have to get a REALLY GOOD localisation team for that...
Smopiiac: I've played all 4 monkey islands spanish localized, and believe me, none of the jokes had lost (except that "jojo" monkey wrench puzzle in Monkey 2. Monkey Wrench, a tool, generally is translated to spanish as "Llave inglesa" the spanish name for that tool, So, I never figured out that i had to use the monkey in my inventory to close the pump because i didn't know the real connotation of jojo monkey with the real meaning of a "monkey" wrench )
This post might come off sounding a little arrogant, so skip it if that is a problem.
After having read through this whole thread, a few things came to mind, mostly because this subject about translation in media has always puzzled me somewhat, and is thus interesting to me.
As someone who does not care for subtitles or speech in my native language, I have to state how much I hate having to wait and pay for the whole translation process of games. I don't need it, so why do I have to suffer from it?
It could be interesting to know how many lost sales the lack of subtitles causes. Obviously, it must be a fair amount since so many games are getting translated these days. But I think this threads paints an exaggerated image of the issue, I believe most people are just fine with English speech and subs, not the 1% as someone said. It seems many people think that translating a game is a simple process, and something you can do quickly. Doing a translation of a game like MI requires a lot of background work, they have to look into how the previous MI titles were translated, they also have to work on translating the jokes so they still make sense. All this is not an easy task, and takes a lot of time and money.
To me, it seems like most of the people that complains about the lack of translations are from Germany, France, Italy or Spain. This is no wonder though, as they are the countries which dubs TV, and have most things translated. They are some the largest countries in Europe, so that might be why they shut themselves off, and ignore English so much? There are a lot of other languages in Europe, but most of us are just fine with things only available in English, because we've learned it well, it is afterall the number one language in the world (after Mandarin, but who counts that?).
If the reasoning for using a localised release, is that you do not feel talented enough with the English language, and thus just stick with your own. Then that might just be the problem right there, you never get the change to expand your vocabolary.
Someone said that Italy didn't start to teach English in school until 2000, that really shocked me. I kinda feel sad that we in this day and age, aren't better at communicating in a global language.
Just to be clear, I am partially against translations of games (and other types of media), because the price for the translations usually ends up on every buyers hands. But if the people who needs the translations, payed the price for it themselves, I wouldn't have any problems, and would be all for it.
As a final word, open up to the English language, study it. You use and hear your own language every day, so spend each chance you get to learn something new.
Are you kidding? Go read the other forum threads, go learn how episodic games are made. They do not have all 5 episodes done. In fact, they are probably just finishing voice recordings for the 2nd episode now. I'd be surprised if they even have the last episode written. What they have is the engine done, puzzles planned, over-all story mapped out. They haven't already made all 5 episodes and then decide to release it monthly, they continue to make all 5 episodes throughout the whole time. What do whole seasons of TV shows finish filming before they air the first episode... no.
It's obvious you have no idea how an episodic production schedule works. It's no wonder all your posts only sound like you're complaining and insulting TellTale.
Yes, yes, that's right you can get professional quality translations done for free, *rolls eyes*. So, you also have no idea how localizations are done. If it's so easy for translations why don't you do them then? Even if someone is translating between two languages they are fluent in, localization also involves finding appropriate substitutions for idioms and wordplay that can't be translated in addition to cultural references that another country might not understand.
Not to mention the amount of dialogue in a Monkey Island game, it's not like translating a first person shooter...
Well, I'm sorry you don't want to wait. *rolls eyes*
LOL Are you serious???
Then, or the Telltale's staff are completely incapable to do their job, or you have no idea that you are saying and how an episodic production schedule works.
Any game (also a little game like an episode of MI) can to be done in a month, it's impossible! Now they have completed all the history of the game (otherwise how can they could to give the titles at all the episodes???), the game engine is the same for all episodes, and very probably they have implemented the history in that too (maybe the last episodes miss that), they only must to make some graphic improvement for the game, or test it!
Now, about the translation discourse, anyone with average intelligence understand that i was exaggerated, however it's not difficult to find an interpreter for that job(like they did for WALLACE & GORMIT, but you think that it's an FPS, right??? ), and it isn't surely expensive for a company like the TT, and even it requires a lot of time.
P.S.: I want to say you that i'm very happy that my favorite game is relive thanks to Telltale, but i am very disappointed by him because i can't play it as american and english gamers as, that's it! understand?
It's great when people who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about or how the development process works say these things...
From what I recall reading in an interview, they've said that they're currently working on around episodes 3-4 at varying stages. Dominic Armato referred to recording his lines for episode 2 most recently. In any case, I can't believe the people who WANT Telltale to rush releases and just get the games out as fast as possible. I don't care if a game is delayed in the short run, because in the long run, all anyone cares about is the final product and its quality. And this isn't even a delay, it's just a game being released in chapters as it is still in development.
Wallace & Gromit was targeted at the European market, because it's a popular IP there. For ToMI, it wasn't as high a priority, and when the games are on a very fast development schedule, it's far too problematic to slow it down to translate, localise (which is a whole process on top of translation that can take a long time for text-heavy games and especially games like Telltale's where maintaining the meaning and humour is crucial) and implement 4-5 other languages. You just have to accept that it takes time. Many games take months to be released in PAL regions, and even English speakers in Australia and the UK have to wait for them - games that are already in their own language. What Telltale offers is far better than that.
There is a point that all no-english and no-subs and no-voiceover consider!!!!
Children!!!!
I've a brother 9 years... and he don't understand english very well... so now MI have a lot lot lot lot of FANS.... I think there isn't a game in the world with this auction yea?
How many years you had the first time that you have played MI?
Any think that my brother can play and understand MI? Any are sure that my brother will be a fan of this game?
There is a point that all no-english and no-subs and no-voiceover consider!!!!
Children!!!!
I've a brother 9 years... and he don't understand english very well... so now MI have a lot lot lot lot of FANS.... I think there isn't a game in the world with this auction yea?
How many years you had the first time that you have played MI?
Any think that my brother can play and understand MI? Any are sure that my brother will be a fan of this game?
Unless you want to wait for localized version, there is also another solution to that problem, which is dictionary. Like me and few others mentioned earlier in this thread, we learned more English from adventure games than from school. I was about the same age as your brother, when I started playing adventure games back in the 80's and I didn't know more English than "Hello, my name is..." and "How are you?"
Your own attitude decides if language becomes problem or not, but in general children are usually quick to learn if they want to play something.
I've only read some of the posts on this thread, I haven't the time to read all of them, so maybe my questions are already answered. If so, I apologize.
I'm spanish, and although I'd like a localized version (just on the texts or even the voices), I have no problem on playing a full english version (provided it has at least subtitles).
I did so with Strong Bad on WiiWare, I'll do so with ToMI on WiiWare, but with ToMI on PC I'll wait until a localized version, just like I did with Sam&Max.
It was nice to find that W&G were multilingual from the first day, and I have heard that the reason is because Microsoft requires translations for its XBOX Live games.
So my questions are:
* Nintendo does not require translation for its WiiWare games?
* Even if Nintendo does not require the translation, why Telltale can do that for W&G and not for ToMI? I know the problems of time with the episodic schedule, but these problems should be also in the W&G series. Why not just simply delay a few days/weeks the launch of the ToMI games till the translation is done? I have also read the low budget problem. Is the game texts (just texts, no voices) translation process a such expensive thing that you can afford it only for one game series?
Well, I think these are all my doubts.
I'm not complaining, I'm just looking for info.
Thanks
This post might come off sounding a little arrogant, so skip it if that is a problem.
After having read through this whole thread, a few things came to mind, mostly because this subject about translation in media has always puzzled me somewhat, and is thus interesting to me.
As someone who does not care for subtitles or speech in my native language, I have to state how much I hate having to wait and pay for the whole translation process of games. I don't need it, so why do I have to suffer from it?
It could be interesting to know how many lost sales the lack of subtitles causes. Obviously, it must be a fair amount since so many games are getting translated these days. But I think this threads paints an exaggerated image of the issue, I believe most people are just fine with English speech and subs, not the 1% as someone said. It seems many people think that translating a game is a simple process, and something you can do quickly. Doing a translation of a game like MI requires a lot of background work, they have to look into how the previous MI titles were translated, they also have to work on translating the jokes so they still make sense. All this is not an easy task, and takes a lot of time and money.
To me, it seems like most of the people that complains about the lack of translations are from Germany, France, Italy or Spain. This is no wonder though, as they are the countries which dubs TV, and have most things translated. They are some the largest countries in Europe, so that might be why they shut themselves off, and ignore English so much? There are a lot of other languages in Europe, but most of us are just fine with things only available in English, because we've learned it well, it is afterall the number one language in the world (after Mandarin, but who counts that?).
If the reasoning for using a localised release, is that you do not feel talented enough with the English language, and thus just stick with your own. Then that might just be the problem right there, you never get the change to expand your vocabolary.
Someone said that Italy didn't start to teach English in school until 2000, that really shocked me. I kinda feel sad that we in this day and age, aren't better at communicating in a global language.
Just to be clear, I am partially against translations of games (and other types of media), because the price for the translations usually ends up on every buyers hands. But if the people who needs the translations, payed the price for it themselves, I wouldn't have any problems, and would be all for it.
As a final word, open up to the English language, study it. You use and hear your own language every day, so spend each chance you get to learn something new.
I somewhat agree with this. The most annoying thing is that the whole of Europe has to wait months for translations in 4 languages, including the UK like Impossible3144 said, but also countries that never get a translation into their own language. I am glad that in this day and age I can just buy the American version on release day and don't have to wait 6 months to get a (for me) identical game.
The offensiveness of ilcapitano10 is stunning, apparently he thinks he is so special that he deserves special treatment. And no, not all games are already done, I remember how TT implemented a lot of user input into the later episodes of Sam & Max Season One, including some jokes from the forums, which was very awesome. I don't know many developers that are so close to their customer base, they have even been very patient with the downright whining that some posters have been doing in this thread. At the end of the day TT is an American developer and Monkey Island is an American franchise (no matter how popular it is elsewhere) and of course they are going to release for their own market first. Are you also flaming the forums of Japanese developers for not releasing their games simultaneous worldwide?
Add me to the people who learned English thanks to adventure games, especially the early Sierra ones, I even learned some American history before I learned you could just skip the age-test at the start of Larry 1 :P I also learned you will die if you don't use a condom, truly Leisure Suit Larry was the greatest edutainment title ever.
As someone who does not care for subtitles or speech in my native language, I have to state how much I hate having to wait and pay for the whole translation process of games. I don't need it, so why do I have to suffer from it?
It could be interesting to know how many lost sales the lack of subtitles causes. Obviously, it must be a fair amount since so many games are getting translated these days. But I think this threads paints an exaggerated image of the issue, I believe most people are just fine with English speech and subs, not the 1% as someone said. It seems many people think that translating a game is a simple process, and something you can do quickly. Doing a translation of a game like MI requires a lot of background work, they have to look into how the previous MI titles were translated, they also have to work on translating the jokes so they still make sense. All this is not an easy task, and takes a lot of time and money.
(...)
Just to be clear, I am partially against translations of games (and other types of media), because the price for the translations usually ends up on every buyers hands. But if the people who needs the translations, payed the price for it themselves, I wouldn't have any problems, and would be all for it.
As a final word, open up to the English language, study it. You use and hear your own language every day, so spend each chance you get to learn something new.
I felt so identified with your speech that it almost brought tears of joy to my eyes
Learn English people, it's the only way to communicate with the rest of the world!
The offensiveness of ilcapitano10 is stunning, apparently he thinks he is so special that he deserves special treatment.
i think, and hope, that he has to be really young. This is not a good reason for being so rude but i think we've to keep that in mind when we answer him.
but if i'm wrong then... let's skin him! just kidding...
Yea some for other countries this can be done, example in Holland, Sweden etc...
But for some countries ex: spain, italy, france english is not so simple to understand in a children age...
Do you really think that a children of this age can resolve crazy puzzles? Be serious.
Then special in Italy english at scool is some like an optional so NOW in 2009 a Tipical Italian Children see the game and buy another.
Im also a guy that learn the english from the Basic language but not all is like me or like u... ok?
And why exactly would Dutch our Swedish kids be better at understanding English than Spanish or Italian ones? We don't learn English that early here (I'm Dutch), at least not when I was in elementary school. Of course children would enjoy a game better if it was in their own language, but you got to roll with what you have and this is also true for children from countries who will never see any form of localization of computer games.
Do you really think that a children of this age can resolve crazy puzzles? Be serious.
we're not talking about puzzles. we just sayd that games are one of the best way for childrens to learn english. and all of them should take this opportunity.
Our language is much influenced from the Latin while yours is more influenced by English/Duch
The same is true for Germans, but apparently they also have trouble with English.
Latin and Germanic languages aren't that different, and yes I've had both at school. Try to learn an Asian language and you can see how much Western languages are actually alike. But I guess this is getting a bit off topic.
Well i'm spanish, and i can understand that TT and MI are english developer and franchise, but they can understand too that ppl like to play games in they natural lenguage, that's is normal.
I'm sure that when they release the game in Spanish, Italy, French and other lenguages the game will sell a lot better that with an english-only version.
For example, i'm the only one that goes to buy it for my group of friends, cose the others not understand english good, so this can be so much ppl that not buy the game, and that game not's like sam&max, sooo much ppl know Monkey Island franchise and want to buy it nad soo much go to be really sad if they not release non-english versions of the game
I hope TT not take so much time to release all versions
Thankx!!
Well i'm spanish, and i can understand that TT and MI are english developer and franchise, but they can understand too that ppl like to play games in they natural lenguage, that's is normal.
I'm sure that when they release the game in Spanish, Italy, French and other lenguages the game will sell a lot better that with an english-only version.
For example, i'm the only one that goes to buy it for my group of friends, cose the others not understand english good, so this can be so much ppl that not buy the game, and that game not's like sam&max, sooo much ppl know Monkey Island franchise and want to buy it nad soo much go to be really sad if they not release non-english versions of the game
I hope TT not take so much time to release all versions
Thankx!!
Also for me, I know a lot of MI fans and I don't know any of them that have tried the DEMO...
Here is my point. I'm french. I don't write or speak english very well, but I do understand it. The thing is I'm the kind of "radical" people, who just can't see a movie with translated voices. But when I look around me, I'm quite the only one who just hate that. Most of the people here don't mind downloading an ugly DivX with ugly sound, ugly picture, translated voices. They don't care because for most of them, a good actor is just an actor with more money and more headlines in the newspapers. So if I would come with a game and ask them to play through it, they would'nt even ask if the game is translated. But Then, they'll go to the settings and see that "hint" is a strange word. As "avast" (isn't an antivirus ?), as tales (oh I remember when I was young, it's the friend of sonic, it should mean fox, probably an history of a fox and a monkey in an island).
In France, we learn english at least for 7 years (since the age of 10). And what's so funny about that is in a 30+ pupils classroom, at the end of these 7 years, only two or three people can make sentence and read a complete page. I don't know why, but for me it's just a lack of interest. Everything is translated here, and in some theaters, even the Original Version is skipped.
So, to go back to my story, if I want my friends to discover S&M or ToMI, they'll just play a few minutes to it, then abort because they don't understand a single word of it. I tried with Sam&Max, and let's see... hmm... nop, I'm the only one who played it in its original version.
If I look back, I see Day of The Tentacle, Beneath a Steel Sky, Sanitarium, Nightlong, and tons of other, where just the subtitles were translated. And it does the trick, we can understand the meaning of the sentence, we can know how the actors play the line, and if we sure miss lot of jokes, at least people can play and enjoy it.
That's my point, I watch my movies at home with original version and original subtitles, it just helps me understand better, withtout losing all the jokes (even if I don't understand all of them ^^). But when I was younger, what makes me go to adventure games, was first completely dubbed adventure games (Normality, Broken Sword, Curse of Monkey Island), then just translated subtitles (Sanitarium, Nightlong). Young people can learn english that way, for sure it could help them (I know Shenmue II game and adventure games helped me a lot to understand and speak english), but without translated subtitle, you just close the doors to the youngers, and a lot of other people. Just a statistic. Where I'm working, we're in the middle of Paris, a very touristic spot, with everyday english speaking customers. We're maybe ten in the team, and just two (and I'm one) can understand and speak average english. And they're not youngsters, it goes from 18 to 40 years old
Oh, and I forgot : no translated game means no press for the game. I don't even seen anything more than just a line saying a game was realeasing (but not in France, that's the funny part), and no review about it.
Oh, and I forgot : no translated game means no press for the game. I don't even seen anything more than just a line saying a game was realeasing (but not in France, that's the funny part), and no review about it.
The same in italy, few lines few info.
I think every of us need to make a mistake for understand it... leave telltalegames to made it only the time say us the true.
Oh, and I forgot : no translated game means no press for the game. I don't even seen anything more than just a line saying a game was realeasing (but not in France, that's the funny part), and no review about it.
That's true.
When the game finally comes out translated on the store shelves, it also has very little press, because it's at least one year old.
I used to work in a video games store, and I saw this happening with Sam & Max season 1. The game didn't sell very good because very few had heard of it.
It's great when people who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about or how the development process works say these things...
From what I recall reading in an interview, they've said that they're currently working on around episodes 3-4 at varying stages. Dominic Armato referred to recording his lines for episode 2 most recently. In any case, I can't believe the people who WANT Telltale to rush releases and just get the games out as fast as possible. I don't care if a game is delayed in the short run, because in the long run, all anyone cares about is the final product and its quality. And this isn't even a delay, it's just a game being released in chapters as it is still in development.
Wallace & Gromit was targeted at the European market, because it's a popular IP there. For ToMI, it wasn't as high a priority, and when the games are on a very fast development schedule, it's far too problematic to slow it down to translate, localise (which is a whole process on top of translation that can take a long time for text-heavy games and especially games like Telltale's where maintaining the meaning and humour is crucial) and implement 4-5 other languages. You just have to accept that it takes time. Many games take months to be released in PAL regions, and even English speakers in Australia and the UK have to wait for them - games that are already in their own language. What Telltale offers is far better than that.
auto-quote me
Any game (also a little game like an episode of MI) can to be done in a month, it's impossible! Now they have completed all the history of the game (otherwise how can they could to give the titles at all the episodes???), the game engine is the same for all episodes, and very probably they have implemented the history in that too (maybe the last episodes miss that), they only must to make some graphic improvement for the game, or test it!
What have i say??
It's very funny to see people that can't understand what they read... maybe the last episodes miss that does not seem very different from From what I recall reading in an interview, they've said that they're currently working on around episodes 3-4 at varying stages. Simply Miss the game engine implementation of the last episodes, and if they haven't it they can't to do other works for them.
And not only, this interview how many time ago is (Can you link that for me?)??? Surely now they are more advanced.
And no joke yet, the little difficults about localization they could resolve them before announcing the launch of the game, they haven't because they didn't want!!! Why this quickly?
The best inaccuracy that i felt it's that that Monkey Island isn't targeted to Europe market. But do you know how many copies it have been sold in Europe!?!??!
maybe the last episodes miss that does not seem very different from From what I recall reading in an interview, they've said that they're currently working on around episodes 3-4 at varying stages.
Actually, there is a big difference between you originally claiming all 5 episodes were done, then you admitting maybe the last episode wasn't done, and then an interview saying they are working on parts 3-4. You know, the difference of 2-3 whole episodes.
Oh, and you can't really work on localization of a script if it hasn't been written yet. And, by the way, in reference to your earlier comment I mean an actual script. It's very easy to have title names and a plot summary way way in advance. Having an actual script is a little more time consuming.
The interviews are all in the Private Pirates Club (which are now open to the public):
The 'just being finished recording episode 2' quote is from only a week or two ago. In the Q&A thread they also stated that an episode isn't ready to play-test till about 3-4 weeks before launch. The remainder of the time till launch is used with bug testing, during which time they still add content. So they aren't actually finished with an episode till about 3 weeks before it comes out and it isn't really release quality till just before the release date.
But do you know how many copies it have been sold in Europe!?!??!
I really don't, but I'm a bit curious to know that number because I would also like to have the chance to play again TOMI - couldn't wait, I've bought the english version - in my own language (Italian)...
And of couse, if a consistent share of the previous sales of MI's episodes were sold in Europe, then maybe we can hope to get a quick - and accurate - translation, even just the localized subtitles would be enough to appreciate all the jokes, not only the great part of them.
Anyway, I'm scared that these discussion is gone too far... someone screaming "I want the *mylanguage* translation right now", someone else saying "You losers, learn english... why latin people are so latin?", and so on in the magic land of childish behaviour...
So it's not all non-english speaking posters, but the few people resorting to these tactics- coincidently (lol) they were all italian/spanish.
I've spent a significant part of the day considering if I should say something about that...
Here I am (from Italy), just to say that - maybe - this discussion has been made a bit rude by a couple of italian/spanish comments (and that doesn't mean anything about a culture), but certanly your recurring racist considerations didn't help that much making these thread useful.
And I find curious that You, that I assume aren't italian or spanish, were involved in every hottest discussion... sangue latino?
I think (I'm sure at 99,99%) that as Sam & Max Season 1 and 2, at the end of the Season, Telltale create a dvd with Italian subtitles or German, French and Spain.
I think (I'm sure at 99,99%) that as Sam & Max Season 1 and 2, at the end of the Season, Telltale create a dvd with Italian subtitles or German, French and Spain.
It wasn't TellTale who created those DVD's, but the European dealers (I think Nobilis for Season One and Atari for Season two).
The questions are:
Is TellTale already negociating with some dealer for a translation? If not, they plan to have such negociation soon in the future?
If not, will TellTale localize and launch the localized version all by itself, without the help of any third part dealer? In that case, if I buy now the English version, I'll have to buy again the localized version?
As I said somewhere earlier I have no problem on playing it full english. I'm gonna buy the WiiWare version as soon as possible. But, since it's most likely that a localized PC version appears, I want to wait for it to buy it. BUT if someone can guarantee me that if I buy the english PC version NOW, I will be able to have (at any time, I have no hurry) a spanish (and I think it may works also for french, german, italian people...) localized version, WITHOUT having to pay for it again, I will buy it RIGHT NOW. That's the only reason why I haven't pre-order.
So, may anyone say something for sure? Please?
Comments
I'm not intending to add any more to the argument, but I'd just like to repeat that they colud waited to enounce the release of the game...
We waited many years for this game (and i had lost all the hopes for a next episode of MI) and we could waited other times (especially if we didn't know that the TellTale work about this)...
I don't understand this hurry, they had all the times that they wanted to enounce the release, and add the subtitles (ENG-ITA-SPA-DEU-FRA)...
Except, that Telltale is working on an episodic game schedule (the 'complete' Tales of Monkey Island won't be done for another 5-6 months). Basically you're asking why Telltale didn't go against the business model they've been using for the past few years. I always find it weird when people criticize the production of a game when they don't even bother to take into account how the production process works.
When releasing episodic games, the release date of not only the first episode but all the remaining episodes is really important. If you have a longer wait than a month there's a good chance that not as many people will buy the next episode. Having to do each episode in 5 languages would most likely take more than a month to do, hurting the sales of the future episodes. The timing between episode releases is very important.
Also, I'm sure there was some form of - I don't want to say pressure - but 'incentive' to have the first episode of Tales come out around the same time as Secret of Monkey Island: Special Edition. LucasArts does still own the rights after all.
Plus, if you don't mind waiting, then what's the difference that you'll be waiting for the subtitles? If they had waited to announce MI just so they could program subtitles then you'd be getting the game later than July 7th anyway. You seem to be complaining only because the English release is first. No one really doubts that a localization won't be coming in the future seeings as there has been ones for past TellTale games.
If you have a game ready to go in one language, it makes sense to release it (financially, especially for a small company like TellTale and for a genre that's not as popular as it was 10-20 years ago) then to hold off and wait for the other language versions to be completed. It secures revenue to continue releasing the later episodes, to allow it to be localized, and to test the market's reaction to the game.
Sorry, but really do you think that they 've done only the first episode??? Now they are ready for all the 5 episodes, but their policy is that release one episode for a mounth, and now they are working to prepare the game for the digital delivery or other little problems.
It's natural that they can't do a game (also if it's short like 5 or 6 hours of play) in a months, then why don't wait that the game was ready with subtitles??? I repeat me, also WALLACE & GORMIT!?!??! Why this step behind??? It was a mark of respect for all the fans of MI of the world!!!
An interpreter for translate "Monkey Island" you find it also for free and that's a work not over a week for each language!!!
It's impossible that they are so poor that are forced to sell now the game to avoid bankruptcy! Came on!
I like so much this games (it's my favourite of alla time) that i can't wait, and i don't want wait, and i want the cover painted by Steve Purcell, but i can't, you think that is right?
-1- Book TOMI with its bonus ... but in English and can not play until the version in Italian with the probability of having to re-buy
-2 - Wait for the Italian version that it will take months and no bonus! HELP DO THAT PLEASE ?????
Dude, english is not that hard. Buy the MI with the bonus, and get an english dictionary. That's how we all learned english in my family, from adventure games! Really!
We have to wait, i don't buy the game in english because i don't enjoy it in other language! :mad:
This is my advice...
The Telltale team has an official give me advice for my question?
Please answer!
Plus, the bonus is pretty sweet.
Are you kidding? Go read the other forum threads, go learn how episodic games are made. They do not have all 5 episodes done. In fact, they are probably just finishing voice recordings for the 2nd episode now. I'd be surprised if they even have the last episode written. What they have is the engine done, puzzles planned, over-all story mapped out. They haven't already made all 5 episodes and then decide to release it monthly, they continue to make all 5 episodes throughout the whole time. What do whole seasons of TV shows finish filming before they air the first episode... no.
It's obvious you have no idea how an episodic production schedule works. It's no wonder all your posts only sound like you're complaining and insulting TellTale.
Yes, yes, that's right you can get professional quality translations done for free, *rolls eyes*. So, you also have no idea how localizations are done. If it's so easy for translations why don't you do them then? Even if someone is translating between two languages they are fluent in, localization also involves finding appropriate substitutions for idioms and wordplay that can't be translated in addition to cultural references that another country might not understand.
Not to mention the amount of dialogue in a Monkey Island game, it's not like translating a first person shooter...
Well, I'm sorry you don't want to wait. *rolls eyes*
ilcapitano10 may have exaggerated his part but you're exaggerating on the other side. so by industry experts that the location does not cost more than 8-900 dollars per language, if not produced in different languages Tomi is why did not want to do. Wallace and Gromit has been translated probably because their target customer is less than 18 years and you see a teenager today with translating vocabulary? Tomi has a target of higher age and therefore of people who may have already studied English enough. And even the quality of the subtitles do not think that this great problem if there are historical notes could not understand them either in English or other languages, however, Wallace and Gromit has been translated into Italian and other languages and then use the same translator, right? .
You'd have to get a REALLY GOOD localisation team for that...
Smopiiac: I've played all 4 monkey islands spanish localized, and believe me, none of the jokes had lost (except that "jojo" monkey wrench puzzle in Monkey 2. Monkey Wrench, a tool, generally is translated to spanish as "Llave inglesa" the spanish name for that tool, So, I never figured out that i had to use the monkey in my inventory to close the pump because i didn't know the real connotation of jojo monkey with the real meaning of a "monkey" wrench
After having read through this whole thread, a few things came to mind, mostly because this subject about translation in media has always puzzled me somewhat, and is thus interesting to me.
As someone who does not care for subtitles or speech in my native language, I have to state how much I hate having to wait and pay for the whole translation process of games. I don't need it, so why do I have to suffer from it?
It could be interesting to know how many lost sales the lack of subtitles causes. Obviously, it must be a fair amount since so many games are getting translated these days. But I think this threads paints an exaggerated image of the issue, I believe most people are just fine with English speech and subs, not the 1% as someone said. It seems many people think that translating a game is a simple process, and something you can do quickly. Doing a translation of a game like MI requires a lot of background work, they have to look into how the previous MI titles were translated, they also have to work on translating the jokes so they still make sense. All this is not an easy task, and takes a lot of time and money.
To me, it seems like most of the people that complains about the lack of translations are from Germany, France, Italy or Spain. This is no wonder though, as they are the countries which dubs TV, and have most things translated. They are some the largest countries in Europe, so that might be why they shut themselves off, and ignore English so much? There are a lot of other languages in Europe, but most of us are just fine with things only available in English, because we've learned it well, it is afterall the number one language in the world (after Mandarin, but who counts that?).
If the reasoning for using a localised release, is that you do not feel talented enough with the English language, and thus just stick with your own. Then that might just be the problem right there, you never get the change to expand your vocabolary.
Someone said that Italy didn't start to teach English in school until 2000, that really shocked me. I kinda feel sad that we in this day and age, aren't better at communicating in a global language.
Just to be clear, I am partially against translations of games (and other types of media), because the price for the translations usually ends up on every buyers hands. But if the people who needs the translations, payed the price for it themselves, I wouldn't have any problems, and would be all for it.
As a final word, open up to the English language, study it. You use and hear your own language every day, so spend each chance you get to learn something new.
LOL Are you serious???
Then, or the Telltale's staff are completely incapable to do their job, or you have no idea that you are saying and how an episodic production schedule works.
Any game (also a little game like an episode of MI) can to be done in a month, it's impossible! Now they have completed all the history of the game (otherwise how can they could to give the titles at all the episodes???), the game engine is the same for all episodes, and very probably they have implemented the history in that too (maybe the last episodes miss that), they only must to make some graphic improvement for the game, or test it!
Now, about the translation discourse, anyone with average intelligence understand that i was exaggerated, however it's not difficult to find an interpreter for that job(like they did for WALLACE & GORMIT, but you think that it's an FPS, right???
P.S.: I want to say you that i'm very happy that my favorite game is relive thanks to Telltale, but i am very disappointed by him because i can't play it as american and english gamers as, that's it! understand?
From what I recall reading in an interview, they've said that they're currently working on around episodes 3-4 at varying stages. Dominic Armato referred to recording his lines for episode 2 most recently. In any case, I can't believe the people who WANT Telltale to rush releases and just get the games out as fast as possible. I don't care if a game is delayed in the short run, because in the long run, all anyone cares about is the final product and its quality. And this isn't even a delay, it's just a game being released in chapters as it is still in development.
Wallace & Gromit was targeted at the European market, because it's a popular IP there. For ToMI, it wasn't as high a priority, and when the games are on a very fast development schedule, it's far too problematic to slow it down to translate, localise (which is a whole process on top of translation that can take a long time for text-heavy games and especially games like Telltale's where maintaining the meaning and humour is crucial) and implement 4-5 other languages. You just have to accept that it takes time. Many games take months to be released in PAL regions, and even English speakers in Australia and the UK have to wait for them - games that are already in their own language. What Telltale offers is far better than that.
Children!!!!
I've a brother 9 years... and he don't understand english very well... so now MI have a lot lot lot lot of FANS.... I think there isn't a game in the world with this auction yea?
How many years you had the first time that you have played MI?
Any think that my brother can play and understand MI? Any are sure that my brother will be a fan of this game?
Unless you want to wait for localized version, there is also another solution to that problem, which is dictionary. Like me and few others mentioned earlier in this thread, we learned more English from adventure games than from school. I was about the same age as your brother, when I started playing adventure games back in the 80's and I didn't know more English than "Hello, my name is..." and "How are you?"
Your own attitude decides if language becomes problem or not, but in general children are usually quick to learn if they want to play something.
I'm spanish, and although I'd like a localized version (just on the texts or even the voices), I have no problem on playing a full english version (provided it has at least subtitles).
I did so with Strong Bad on WiiWare, I'll do so with ToMI on WiiWare, but with ToMI on PC I'll wait until a localized version, just like I did with Sam&Max.
It was nice to find that W&G were multilingual from the first day, and I have heard that the reason is because Microsoft requires translations for its XBOX Live games.
So my questions are:
* Nintendo does not require translation for its WiiWare games?
* Even if Nintendo does not require the translation, why Telltale can do that for W&G and not for ToMI? I know the problems of time with the episodic schedule, but these problems should be also in the W&G series. Why not just simply delay a few days/weeks the launch of the ToMI games till the translation is done? I have also read the low budget problem. Is the game texts (just texts, no voices) translation process a such expensive thing that you can afford it only for one game series?
Well, I think these are all my doubts.
I'm not complaining, I'm just looking for info.
Thanks
I somewhat agree with this. The most annoying thing is that the whole of Europe has to wait months for translations in 4 languages, including the UK like Impossible3144 said, but also countries that never get a translation into their own language. I am glad that in this day and age I can just buy the American version on release day and don't have to wait 6 months to get a (for me) identical game.
The offensiveness of ilcapitano10 is stunning, apparently he thinks he is so special that he deserves special treatment. And no, not all games are already done, I remember how TT implemented a lot of user input into the later episodes of Sam & Max Season One, including some jokes from the forums, which was very awesome. I don't know many developers that are so close to their customer base, they have even been very patient with the downright whining that some posters have been doing in this thread. At the end of the day TT is an American developer and Monkey Island is an American franchise (no matter how popular it is elsewhere) and of course they are going to release for their own market first. Are you also flaming the forums of Japanese developers for not releasing their games simultaneous worldwide?
Add me to the people who learned English thanks to adventure games, especially the early Sierra ones, I even learned some American history before I learned you could just skip the age-test at the start of Larry 1 :P I also learned you will die if you don't use a condom, truly Leisure Suit Larry was the greatest edutainment title ever.
this is one of the few comments that really make sense.
please do not spread our lack of motivation and lazyness to our childrens.
Learn English people, it's the only way to communicate with the rest of the world!
Yea some for other countries this can be done, example in Holland, Sweden etc...
But for some countries ex: spain, italy, france english is not so simple to understand in a children age...
Do you really think that a children of this age can resolve crazy puzzles? Be serious.
Then special in Italy english at scool is some like an optional so NOW in 2009 a Tipical Italian Children see the game and buy another.
Im also a guy that learn the english from the Basic language but not all is like me or like u... ok?
i think, and hope, that he has to be really young. This is not a good reason for being so rude but i think we've to keep that in mind when we answer him.
but if i'm wrong then... let's skin him! just kidding...
And why exactly would Dutch our Swedish kids be better at understanding English than Spanish or Italian ones? We don't learn English that early here (I'm Dutch), at least not when I was in elementary school. Of course children would enjoy a game better if it was in their own language, but you got to roll with what you have and this is also true for children from countries who will never see any form of localization of computer games.
we're not talking about puzzles. we just sayd that games are one of the best way for childrens to learn english. and all of them should take this opportunity.
Parents are, sadly, responsible for that. (i say "sadly" just because this should be up to the educational system)
that's bad but you're right. those one will always be left behind.
DAddYE as Olaus just stated it's all up to you.
Our language is much influenced from the Latin while yours is more influenced by English/Duch
The same is true for Germans, but apparently they also have trouble with English.
Latin and Germanic languages aren't that different, and yes I've had both at school. Try to learn an Asian language and you can see how much Western languages are actually alike. But I guess this is getting a bit off topic.
I'm sure that when they release the game in Spanish, Italy, French and other lenguages the game will sell a lot better that with an english-only version.
For example, i'm the only one that goes to buy it for my group of friends, cose the others not understand english good, so this can be so much ppl that not buy the game, and that game not's like sam&max, sooo much ppl know Monkey Island franchise and want to buy it nad soo much go to be really sad if they not release non-english versions of the game
I hope TT not take so much time to release all versions
Thankx!!
Also for me, I know a lot of MI fans and I don't know any of them that have tried the DEMO...
In France, we learn english at least for 7 years (since the age of 10). And what's so funny about that is in a 30+ pupils classroom, at the end of these 7 years, only two or three people can make sentence and read a complete page. I don't know why, but for me it's just a lack of interest. Everything is translated here, and in some theaters, even the Original Version is skipped.
So, to go back to my story, if I want my friends to discover S&M or ToMI, they'll just play a few minutes to it, then abort because they don't understand a single word of it. I tried with Sam&Max, and let's see... hmm... nop, I'm the only one who played it in its original version.
If I look back, I see Day of The Tentacle, Beneath a Steel Sky, Sanitarium, Nightlong, and tons of other, where just the subtitles were translated. And it does the trick, we can understand the meaning of the sentence, we can know how the actors play the line, and if we sure miss lot of jokes, at least people can play and enjoy it.
That's my point, I watch my movies at home with original version and original subtitles, it just helps me understand better, withtout losing all the jokes (even if I don't understand all of them ^^). But when I was younger, what makes me go to adventure games, was first completely dubbed adventure games (Normality, Broken Sword, Curse of Monkey Island), then just translated subtitles (Sanitarium, Nightlong). Young people can learn english that way, for sure it could help them (I know Shenmue II game and adventure games helped me a lot to understand and speak english), but without translated subtitle, you just close the doors to the youngers, and a lot of other people. Just a statistic. Where I'm working, we're in the middle of Paris, a very touristic spot, with everyday english speaking customers. We're maybe ten in the team, and just two (and I'm one) can understand and speak average english. And they're not youngsters, it goes from 18 to 40 years old
Oh, and I forgot : no translated game means no press for the game. I don't even seen anything more than just a line saying a game was realeasing (but not in France, that's the funny part), and no review about it.
The same in italy, few lines few info.
I think every of us need to make a mistake for understand it... leave telltalegames to made it only the time say us the true.
That's true.
When the game finally comes out translated on the store shelves, it also has very little press, because it's at least one year old.
I used to work in a video games store, and I saw this happening with Sam & Max season 1. The game didn't sell very good because very few had heard of it.
auto-quote me What have i say??
It's very funny to see people that can't understand what they read...
maybe the last episodes miss that does not seem very different from From what I recall reading in an interview, they've said that they're currently working on around episodes 3-4 at varying stages. Simply Miss the game engine implementation of the last episodes, and if they haven't it they can't to do other works for them.
And not only, this interview how many time ago is (Can you link that for me?)??? Surely now they are more advanced.
And no joke yet, the little difficults about localization they could resolve them before announcing the launch of the game, they haven't because they didn't want!!! Why this quickly?
The best inaccuracy that i felt it's that that Monkey Island isn't targeted to Europe market. But do you know how many copies it have been sold in Europe!?!??!
Actually, there is a big difference between you originally claiming all 5 episodes were done, then you admitting maybe the last episode wasn't done, and then an interview saying they are working on parts 3-4. You know, the difference of 2-3 whole episodes.
Oh, and you can't really work on localization of a script if it hasn't been written yet. And, by the way, in reference to your earlier comment I mean an actual script. It's very easy to have title names and a plot summary way way in advance. Having an actual script is a little more time consuming.
The interviews are all in the Private Pirates Club (which are now open to the public):
http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=41
The 'just being finished recording episode 2' quote is from only a week or two ago. In the Q&A thread they also stated that an episode isn't ready to play-test till about 3-4 weeks before launch. The remainder of the time till launch is used with bug testing, during which time they still add content. So they aren't actually finished with an episode till about 3 weeks before it comes out and it isn't really release quality till just before the release date.
I really don't, but I'm a bit curious to know that number because I would also like to have the chance to play again TOMI - couldn't wait, I've bought the english version - in my own language (Italian)...
And of couse, if a consistent share of the previous sales of MI's episodes were sold in Europe, then maybe we can hope to get a quick - and accurate - translation, even just the localized subtitles would be enough to appreciate all the jokes, not only the great part of them.
Anyway, I'm scared that these discussion is gone too far... someone screaming "I want the *mylanguage* translation right now", someone else saying "You losers, learn english... why latin people are so latin?", and so on in the magic land of childish behaviour...
I've spent a significant part of the day considering if I should say something about that...
Here I am (from Italy), just to say that - maybe - this discussion has been made a bit rude by a couple of italian/spanish comments (and that doesn't mean anything about a culture), but certanly your recurring racist considerations didn't help that much making these thread useful.
And I find curious that You, that I assume aren't italian or spanish, were involved in every hottest discussion... sangue latino?
The questions are:
Is TellTale already negociating with some dealer for a translation? If not, they plan to have such negociation soon in the future?
If not, will TellTale localize and launch the localized version all by itself, without the help of any third part dealer? In that case, if I buy now the English version, I'll have to buy again the localized version?
As I said somewhere earlier I have no problem on playing it full english. I'm gonna buy the WiiWare version as soon as possible. But, since it's most likely that a localized PC version appears, I want to wait for it to buy it. BUT if someone can guarantee me that if I buy the english PC version NOW, I will be able to have (at any time, I have no hurry) a spanish (and I think it may works also for french, german, italian people...) localized version, WITHOUT having to pay for it again, I will buy it RIGHT NOW. That's the only reason why I haven't pre-order.
So, may anyone say something for sure? Please?