Glad you're not kept up at night by this kind of thing. Other than the hours and hours of working on the controls that did keep you up at night, of course.
But yeah, I really like adventures, and saw nothing wrong with ToMI. Then again, I got experience with the evolution of RPG's from Isometric 2D to WASD 3D.
There are threads discussing this all over the forum. What it comes down to is this: Making a game support point-and-click imposes strict requirements on level design and cinematography. We don't want to work within those requirements, so we dropped point-and-click.
Nah...would be too much to expect you guys doing some work for your money! I'm sorry for this. I hate using keys to walk around because I don't need them for anything else. Without this restriction I could play this game only with my mouse. This really pulled the fun I had playing ToMI down.
So, I guess point & click is really out... Well, that a damn shame. Still, Telltale has every right to do so.
They want to pursue a "more cinematic experience" for their games.
Well, it doesn't get more cinematic than Guybrush running down stairs towards me & getting stuck against the camera in a jerking - not off - motion. That REALLY dragged me into the game.
Still, I bet it's for the greater good. The greater good of my wallet, for starters, as I absolutely refuse to pay for a faulty product.
What I REALLY find funny is people who don't even work for Telltale excusing this control scheme by citing examples of other game genres...
Well, you can't play an FPS like you would an adventure game. You can't play an MMO like you'd play an ARPG. So why do I have to play an adventure game like a bloody half-assed platformer badly ported to PC?
I was kinda hoping you wouldn't pursue this new path with such zealotry & that you'd give Sam & Max a break, seeing as you released two seasons under the "Sam & MAX is BACK! In 3D AND point n' click" banner. That IS how you introduced yourselves back then, isn't it? As the saviours of a dying genre, the POINT & CLICK adventure.
I'm currently playing the second season of Sam & Max and I can't, for the life of me, find anything wrong with it. Sure, it feels like a game... it doesn't have a cinematic atmosphere... do you guys like Mr. Bean? Or maybe you have any other favourite programme that you absolutely LOVED watching as little kids who later suffered adaptations to films, the big screen? Or how about Asterix, maybe you love the albums, and find the cartoons only slightly more exciting than watching orange paint dry?
You see, there is different media mediums & and it has been proven again & again that what works in one format is absolute crap in another. Case in point, you have maybe half a dozen "cinematic" camera angles in TOMI & they're absolute crap.
Do feel free to expand on such a concept. Maybe one day you'll release "games" we can watch instead of play, who knows? Never been done before, that'd really be a first.
I actually thought of re-purchasing TOMI. I finished the first chapter & really couldn't get myself to play the second. It just seemed to much work. But, it was Monkey Island. So, after months & months of having nothing to do with it, I... well, I got a... a demo. And I found myself being drawn to the story. Especially in the parts where it felt like a GAME, as opposed to a weird cinematic experience. And so, by the end of the fourth chapter I was really considering donating my hard earned money so that Telltale could have my support on continuing to make great games.
However, I really can't see myself playing that ever again. Looking back, the frustration far outweighed the pleasure. The struggle against the barriers to enter the boat of the dead are more vivid than any wonderfully witty sexual innuendo in the entire game.
And so, I'll give any further "direct-controlled", "cinematic" "experiences" a miss.
We can do business again, should you guys decide to release games that feel like games, play like games & stop being the Fellini of the game industries & release a good, solid Commando style game that even we, the philistine art challenged with low IQs can appreciate fully.
Good day sirs & missusses, and thank you for your time.
Cheers!
Wait a minute...I remember you! I remember reading your posts way back in that "Can I get a refund" topic you made. I had to check your posts to make sure I was remembering the right person, and I was. No one else talks like such an ass. I normally don't remember something like this, but you are one of the most irritating people I've ever seen on the internet in the six years I've been on it, and I've met every type. Someone tried to help you, but instead you kept ignoring them like an ass and treating them with irrational disrespect for it. I do not like you, sir, and ever since I read that I've wanted badly to tell you so. I never thought I'd get the chance, but now that I got my chance, I'm taking it, whether Telltale likes it or not. I don't care if I get banned for calling you out for the ass you are, because it's the honest truth. You're a self-involved self-important git, and it shows in the way you speak to people. No one will EVER hold me back from speaking my mind, and I won't find peace after reading that old topic until I have spoken my mind about you. Here's a suggestion. Next time, treat people with more respect.
I hate using keys to walk around because I don't need them for anything else. Without this restriction I could play this game only with my mouse. This really pulled the fun I had playing ToMI down.
Wait a minute...I remember you! I remember reading your posts way back in that "Can I get a refund" topic you made. I had to check your posts to make sure I was remembering the right person, and I was. No one else talks like such an ass. I normally don't remember something like this, but you are one of the most irritating people I've ever seen on the internet in the six years I've been on it, and I've met every type. Someone tried to help you, but instead you kept ignoring them like an ass and treating them with irrational disrespect for it. I do not like you, sir, and ever since I read that I've wanted badly to tell you so. I never thought I'd get the chance, but now that I got my chance, I'm taking it, whether Telltale likes it or not. I don't care if I get banned for calling you out for the ass you are, because it's the honest truth. You're a self-involved self-important git, and it shows in the way you speak to people. No one will EVER hold me back from speaking my mind, and I won't find peace after reading that old topic until I have spoken my mind about you. Here's a suggestion. Next time, treat people with more respect.
Good day.
Calling someone an arse is no reason to be banned. You haven't really used any "bad words", or anything. I think "arse" is even allowed in prime time telly.
If not, then "bottom" & "backside" are. But I'm sure everyone agrees that calling me a "bottom" just wouldn't have the same effect as calling me an arse, so it will be allowed as it's obvious that the circumstances demanded it.
What I REALLY find funny is people who don't even work for Telltale excusing this control scheme by citing examples of other game genres...
Well, you can't play an FPS like you would an adventure game. You can't play an MMO like you'd play an ARPG. So why do I have to play an adventure game like a bloody half-assed platformer badly ported to PC?
Well, I can't speak for everyone, but this was sort of the case for me. I was already so used to using WASD+mouse control with other types of games on the PC that it felt completely natural to apply it to an adventure game on the PC. It took no time to adjust to it. Click and drag was more of an adjustment, but I'm one of those weirdos that likes it just fine even though I prefer WASD movement (it's handy if I want to eat a sandwich and play at the same time!).
And re: playing an FPS like an adventure game. I think it depends on the FPS. I'm not an expert on the genre by any means but I know of several that are more adventure-y than action-y. The same might be said about MMOs, but I don't play a lot of those. EDIT: Although if you mean you can't play an FPS just with Point and click, that's true, but I don't see how that should mean you should never apply an FPS control scheme to an adventure game. Besides, I think I would like to try a point and click FPS, that sounds like it could be fun.
I'm still confused as to why people are so opposed to the idea of using two hands while playing these games. I can get the whole: "I wanna be able to relax while playing adventure games", but its kinda ridiculous to say that you can't relax because you're using both your hands.
I'm still confused as to why people are so opposed to the idea of using two hands while playing these games. I can get the whole: "I wanna be able to relax while playing adventure games", but its kinda ridiculous to say that you can't relax because you're using both your hands.
I actually understand the mentality. With point and click, your interaction with the game world is less "direct"(hence the new control options being called Direct Control). It creates a different atmosphere when playing. Direct control puts you a step closer into the world itself. Just by changing the movement method, they change a lot about how the game "feels" to the player. When you control movement, it's a lot more focused than when you tell the character to go somewhere. Also, it forces you to use two hands. Somewhat annoying for Morgan fans, from what I can tell.
I actually understand the mentality. With point and click, your interaction with the game world is less "direct"(hence the new control options being called Direct Control). It creates a different atmosphere when playing. Direct control puts you a step closer into the world itself. Just by changing the movement method, they change a lot about how the game "feels" to the player. When you control movement, it's a lot more focused than when you tell the character to go somewhere.
I sorta knew that connection between direct control and such, but I hadn't even considered it in my post. I suppose that's true, but it still seems a little ridiculous.
If it isn't so much to ask, explain further, because that just sounds like people are power hungry, and I don't really think that's the case.
Because it doesn't work. I remember a situation in the first Monkey Island Episode where I was stuck because I couldn't reach a neighboring area on Flotsam Island, because every time I dragged my mouse over to it, the camera changed and I walked in the opposite direction.
If it isn't so much to ask, explain further, because that just sounds like people are power hungry, and I don't really think that's the case.
I don't know if this comparison fits, but maybe you can think about it like driving with automatic vs manual transmission.
People who only learned to drive automatic might be overwhelmed at first by the complexity manual transmission adds. They suddenly have to worry about something they didn't have to before, and they need to use some more limbs. After a while though they will get used to it and shift gears subconsciously.
I had to go through this process for Wallace and Gromit and after a while i adapted. I can't say i like WASD though and i am glad there's Click&Drag now. I see no point in balancing a keyboard around on my knees while leaning back and playing the game if i can use the Mouse instead.
Also using another hand for controls takes up resources on another cerebral hemisphere. I don't know what consequences that has on the gaming experience, but i just thought of it.
Calling someone an arse is no reason to be banned. You haven't really used any "bad words", or anything. I think "arse" is even allowed in prime time telly.
If not, then "bottom" & "backside" are. But I'm sure everyone agrees that calling me a "bottom" just wouldn't have the same effect as calling me an arse, so it will be allowed as it's obvious that the circumstances demanded it.
Cheers!
On most of the forums I've been on you get banned for talking to someone that way. And compared to what I wanted to say, I was actually being nice about it, believe it or not.
Although, to your credit, I am surprised that you took it so well.
but... but... nooooo guys c'mon now i put up with it in w&g & tomi but... *sobs* don't it's like you're neutering Max!
Considering Season 3 will be the first time we can control Max in any prolonged or meaningful way -- and, um, the actual character we're talking about here -- I find this particular choice of words ... fascinating.
*perks up* wait wait control Max not just Sam? and no i haven't read the 9 other pages of the thread
Yup! You get to control how Max uses his psychic powers to solve puzzles. There will even be an icon you can click that will allow you to switch between Sam and Max, depending on who you need to use at the moment.
"I wanna be able to relax while playing adventure games", but its kinda ridiculous to say that you can't relax because you're using both your hands.
When using mouse only, you needn't sit next to the keyboard, so you can assume a much more convenient position (like half-lying on a sofa). It's not such a big deal, but it had its little charm when I was playing the first two Sam and Max seasons.
This was pretty much my exact thought when I first read that
... Crap! I didn't even think of that.
Um, er, here:
Considering Season 3 will be the first time we can give Max pointed mental suggestions with the intention of guiding his actions and maybe/possibly/near-impausibly influencing them should they happen to coincide with whatever would damn well please him at the moment in any prolonged or meaningful way [...]
Good enough to hold together the universe's tenuous grasp on anything resembling order?! :eek:
I would say being able to play Sam and Max while I was half-asleep and lying down had a profound effect on my life.
THIS!
Thank you. I could never have worded it like this. So simple, so powerful. I love you.
Yes, this is it exactly. The relaxing bit. After a hard day's work, pouring a scotch & playing a bit of adventure whilst drifting off into... who cares?
But no, that's all gone. Now we have to play adventure games with full awareness... like a PvP MMO.
And so we are doomed to relive the same stories over & over again, whenever one wants a quiet evening of adventuring.
I wanna be able to fall asleep whilst playing again, dammit! Yes, I took it that far. If TV watchers can, why can't gamers?
Oh, the joy of drifting into sleep & then suddenly waking up & taking a moment to realize if what woke you was a loud snore or the solving of a puzzle.
I'll add yet another thing: taking the simple pleasure of playing a game while semi-conscious is akin to taking the pacifier or a lollipop out of a baby's mouth...
Thank you. I could never have worded it like this. So simple, so powerful. I love you.
Yes, this is it exactly. The relaxing bit. After a hard day's work, pouring a scotch & playing a bit of adventure whilst drifting off into... who cares?
But no, that's all gone. Now we have to play adventure games with full awareness... like a PvP MMO.
And so we are doomed to relive the same stories over & over again, whenever one wants a quiet evening of adventuring.
I wanna be able to fall asleep whilst playing again, dammit! Yes, I took it that far. If TV watchers can, why can't gamers?
Oh, the joy of drifting into sleep & then suddenly waking up & taking a moment to realize if what woke you was a loud snore or the solving of a puzzle.
Cheers!
Ew.. okay. Dude. Please talk only for yourself. Please.
If you guys are playing with your laptops, then why don't you just use the touchpad? When I felt really lazy, I played with the directional keys and my touchpad with only one hand. While the laptop was propped on its side even.
So basically what you're saying is TTG bore you to sleep?
Doesn't exactly sound like a compliment. I, for one, am quite glad they manage to grasp and hold my attention, and I don't fall asleep while playing one. I think if a game makes me fall asleep, it has to be pretty poor, and that's assuming I *am* drowsy.
to me its just about not having to constantly control things. and no, it doesn't immerse me more in the world by making me have to press and hold a key all the time to get anywhere.
lets say i'm investigating a room. I'm only holding my mouse, clicking on different objects. I want to look at something slightly off-screen. It's just so much more comfortable to click somewhere near the edge of the screen to get the object on screen, than having to find and press the right movement key with my other hand to get there.
to me third person adventure games (saying specifically this, because adventures like myst are different) are like watching tv (which i don't get less engaged in just because i'm not pressing any keys) except that i have to think.
i also like for some reason that point & click environments usually feel like a stage.
and click & drag just doesn't work for me.
hope this makes it more clear why i prefer point&click.
WASD control bothered me a bit in W&G, but i got through, and the game was fun, it's not like it destroys the game for me.
What i wonder is, after they made the decision going without point&click, if they ever, maybe due to the feedback of the users, considered adding point&click afterwards again. The argumentation pro vs. con keeps on going since W&G and normally TTG is kind of listening to their users as well, so?
Comments
Meh.
I really liked them, and I've been playing adventure games since the days of Infocom and 5.25" floppies. To each his own.
Glad you're not kept up at night by this kind of thing. Other than the hours and hours of working on the controls that did keep you up at night, of course.
I feel bad period. I must have been that annoying. I didn't realise.
But yeah, I really like adventures, and saw nothing wrong with ToMI. Then again, I got experience with the evolution of RPG's from Isometric 2D to WASD 3D.
Ah, but now it's on purpose :P
I'm not "excusing" the control system, I'm applauding it, for being better than point and click in every imaginable way.
Nah...would be too much to expect you guys doing some work for your money!
Wait a minute...I remember you! I remember reading your posts way back in that "Can I get a refund" topic you made. I had to check your posts to make sure I was remembering the right person, and I was. No one else talks like such an ass. I normally don't remember something like this, but you are one of the most irritating people I've ever seen on the internet in the six years I've been on it, and I've met every type. Someone tried to help you, but instead you kept ignoring them like an ass and treating them with irrational disrespect for it. I do not like you, sir, and ever since I read that I've wanted badly to tell you so. I never thought I'd get the chance, but now that I got my chance, I'm taking it, whether Telltale likes it or not. I don't care if I get banned for calling you out for the ass you are, because it's the honest truth. You're a self-involved self-important git, and it shows in the way you speak to people. No one will EVER hold me back from speaking my mind, and I won't find peace after reading that old topic until I have spoken my mind about you. Here's a suggestion. Next time, treat people with more respect.
Good day.
Why didn't you use click&drag then?
Calling someone an arse is no reason to be banned. You haven't really used any "bad words", or anything. I think "arse" is even allowed in prime time telly.
If not, then "bottom" & "backside" are. But I'm sure everyone agrees that calling me a "bottom" just wouldn't have the same effect as calling me an arse, so it will be allowed as it's obvious that the circumstances demanded it.
Cheers!
Well, I can't speak for everyone, but this was sort of the case for me. I was already so used to using WASD+mouse control with other types of games on the PC that it felt completely natural to apply it to an adventure game on the PC. It took no time to adjust to it. Click and drag was more of an adjustment, but I'm one of those weirdos that likes it just fine even though I prefer WASD movement (it's handy if I want to eat a sandwich and play at the same time!).
And re: playing an FPS like an adventure game. I think it depends on the FPS. I'm not an expert on the genre by any means but I know of several that are more adventure-y than action-y. The same might be said about MMOs, but I don't play a lot of those. EDIT: Although if you mean you can't play an FPS just with Point and click, that's true, but I don't see how that should mean you should never apply an FPS control scheme to an adventure game. Besides, I think I would like to try a point and click FPS, that sounds like it could be fun.
If it isn't so much to ask, explain further, because that just sounds like people are power hungry, and I don't really think that's the case.
lol
Because it doesn't work. I remember a situation in the first Monkey Island Episode where I was stuck because I couldn't reach a neighboring area on Flotsam Island, because every time I dragged my mouse over to it, the camera changed and I walked in the opposite direction.
I don't know if this comparison fits, but maybe you can think about it like driving with automatic vs manual transmission.
People who only learned to drive automatic might be overwhelmed at first by the complexity manual transmission adds. They suddenly have to worry about something they didn't have to before, and they need to use some more limbs. After a while though they will get used to it and shift gears subconsciously.
I had to go through this process for Wallace and Gromit and after a while i adapted. I can't say i like WASD though and i am glad there's Click&Drag now. I see no point in balancing a keyboard around on my knees while leaning back and playing the game if i can use the Mouse instead.
Also using another hand for controls takes up resources on another cerebral hemisphere. I don't know what consequences that has on the gaming experience, but i just thought of it.
On most of the forums I've been on you get banned for talking to someone that way. And compared to what I wanted to say, I was actually being nice about it, believe it or not.
Although, to your credit, I am surprised that you took it so well.
Considering Season 3 will be the first time we can control Max in any prolonged or meaningful way -- and, um, the actual character we're talking about here -- I find this particular choice of words ... fascinating.
Just sayin'.
Yup! You get to control how Max uses his psychic powers to solve puzzles. There will even be an icon you can click that will allow you to switch between Sam and Max, depending on who you need to use at the moment.
And then the universe imploded.
The End.
This was pretty much my exact thought when I first read that
When using mouse only, you needn't sit next to the keyboard, so you can assume a much more convenient position (like half-lying on a sofa). It's not such a big deal, but it had its little charm when I was playing the first two Sam and Max seasons.
... Crap! I didn't even think of that.
Um, er, here:
Good enough to hold together the universe's tenuous grasp on anything resembling order?!
Phew... that was a close one :eek:
THIS!
Thank you. I could never have worded it like this. So simple, so powerful. I love you.
Yes, this is it exactly. The relaxing bit. After a hard day's work, pouring a scotch & playing a bit of adventure whilst drifting off into... who cares?
But no, that's all gone. Now we have to play adventure games with full awareness... like a PvP MMO.
And so we are doomed to relive the same stories over & over again, whenever one wants a quiet evening of adventuring.
I wanna be able to fall asleep whilst playing again, dammit! Yes, I took it that far. If TV watchers can, why can't gamers?
Oh, the joy of drifting into sleep & then suddenly waking up & taking a moment to realize if what woke you was a loud snore or the solving of a puzzle.
Cheers!
EVIL!
Very EVIL!
E
V
I
L
!
Cheers!
Ew.. okay. Dude. Please talk only for yourself. Please.
Doesn't exactly sound like a compliment. I, for one, am quite glad they manage to grasp and hold my attention, and I don't fall asleep while playing one. I think if a game makes me fall asleep, it has to be pretty poor, and that's assuming I *am* drowsy.
lets say i'm investigating a room. I'm only holding my mouse, clicking on different objects. I want to look at something slightly off-screen. It's just so much more comfortable to click somewhere near the edge of the screen to get the object on screen, than having to find and press the right movement key with my other hand to get there.
to me third person adventure games (saying specifically this, because adventures like myst are different) are like watching tv (which i don't get less engaged in just because i'm not pressing any keys) except that i have to think.
i also like for some reason that point & click environments usually feel like a stage.
and click & drag just doesn't work for me.
hope this makes it more clear why i prefer point&click.
WASD control bothered me a bit in W&G, but i got through, and the game was fun, it's not like it destroys the game for me.