Looks like we've got some Apple fanboys around... Er, sorry Jake. No disrespect intended.
All of Telltale is apple fanboys. And they have to be, if a staff member speaks out and says Apple is stupid, they lose their job. It's the same with any job really, all the decisions are made above you and you generally just have to go along with it.
Looks like we've got some Apple fanboys around... Er, sorry Jake. No disrespect intended.
I've owned Apples and Macs on and off my whole life, and worked there for a couple years. I like their products. I work well on them. If either of those two things cease to be the case (as they have occasionally on and off over the last 25 years), I don't buy them. But in my opinion they make good stuff. I enjoy both their current operating system, and their hardware design.
I've owned Apples and Macs on and off my whole life, and worked there for a couple years. I like their products. I work well on them. If either of those two things cease to be the case (as they have occasionally on and off over the last 25 years), I don't buy them. But in my opinion they make good stuff. I enjoy both their current operating system, and their hardware design.
You don't take issue with the fact that they close off development and the ability to do simple maintenance such as changing out your battery on an iPod? These are some of my main concerns with the company. Sure, I have a few minor nitpicks, but this is true of even companies that I love. These are simply some major concerns that make me wary of Apple.
EDIT: Of note, though, is that I adore vintage Apples from the Wozniak era and would likely procure an Apple II if presented the opportunity. I just don't like new Apple; with their closed systems, overly simple interfaces, lack of customization and - to a lesser extent - their 'hipster' aesthetic.
seriously guys, stop complaining about the lack of removable battery, no chargeable iPod related object has had a removable battery. it was only in the ipod touch/iPhone that people started complaining about. and by the way, there are apple fanbois here.
I am one, but to the extent that i am only annoyed by people who hate apple products that have obviously never tried one (IE: Andrew Ryan)
seriously guys, stop complaining about the lack of removable battery, no chargeable iPod related object has had a removable battery. it was only in the ipod touch/iPhone that people started complaining about. and by the way, there are apple fanbois here.
I am one, but to the extent that i am only annoyed by people who hate apple products that have obviously never tried one (IE: Andrew Ryan)
Well, I wouldn't complain about it if they could fix the problem. If they don't want people complaining, why don't they fix it?
Furthermore, not only have I had the dreadful misfortune of using an Apple computer, I was unfortunate enough to own an iPod touch. Sure, it was a functional mp3 player, and I could even use it to browse the Internet. However, I could not do simple things, like save images, run flash, copy/paste text or even change out the battery. Eventually, as all poorly constructed electronics do, the battery on my iPod died. Mine was a 1st generation iPod touch, and the generously named "geniuses" refused to swap my battery. Their advice? Buy a pre-owned iPod touch. Needless to say, I've loathed Apple since.
good developer community creating innovative software
And that is just off the top of my head. I don't deny that for some (many?) uses, the iPad isn't ideal. But for what I need it to do, it is perfect. And playing Sam and Max on a 10-inch screen I hold in my hands seems pretty cool to me.
Edit - Looks like Jake beat me to it!
Multitouch is by no means unique in terms of upcoming tablets. Multitouch is used in the HP Slate, JooJoo, Notion Ink Adam, Dell Mini 5, Archos 7 Android, and Lenovo U1. I doubt this is anywhere near a comprehensive list either, it's simply a quick glance through major tablets in the tech world.
No, the odd man out on the feature list is a lack of flash support. That seems to be almost universally supported, and the iPad is a black sheep in this regard. I like Flash, because it has a good developer community creating innovative software, video, and web content. Cameras are also a common feature in tablets, one that is absent here.
Almost all tablet PCs are going to be thin and lightweight, but I do have to give Apple props on design in this regard. Still, hardware that you can't open is ridiculous. Inability to replace a battery, no slots for expandable memory? USB ports as an additional accessory? Perhaps the iPad is so light and thin because they took out all those weighty, fatty features that every competent tablet has.
Battery life is a strong aspect of the Apple product. The Notion Ink Adam has a reported longer one by 6 hours, and the pricing is said to be aggressively low on the thing come release time.
Yes. It is lightweight and simple in its design. It's battery is reportedly good. It's operating system and provided UI are to the point and not stupidly encumbered by committee-designed UI (windows), or seemingly Slashdot-designed UI (android). The hardware is simple and to the point, and the operating system feels like it was intended for a human to use it, by which I mean, it gets out of the way most of the time.
Also, what ahintz said below about developers, and caveats.
Battery life and form factor seem to be great points in the thing's favor, and I'll give it that. I think that "simple and to the point" hardware ends up taking out far too much in the name of simplicity, and a similar argument goes for the UI and OS. You trade a lot of freedom for that pretty interface, and it lacks the meat, the features, and the capabilities of many similar products on the market.
Battery life is a strong aspect of the Apple product. The Notion Ink Adam has a reported longer one by 6 hours, and the pricing is said to be aggressively low on the thing come release time.
Battery life and form factor seem to be great points in the thing's favor, and I'll give it that. I think that "simple and to the point" hardware ends up taking out far too much in the name of simplicity, and a similar argument goes for the UI and OS. You trade a lot of freedom for that pretty interface, and it lacks the meat, the features, and the capabilities of many similar products on the market.
Holy mother I wrote a lot here, reading it back. Well then. It's woth mentioning as usual that this is just me rambling, and isn't the opinion of Telltale or anything like that. Just my 2 cents. Or, 15 cents, given how long this post ended up!
People don't say that about a GBA, DS, PSP, etc. Those are some of the most hard-closed platforms in the universe -- and unlike the iPad and iPhone you can't simply develop for it using the software IDE that comes with your computer (you can develop for iPhone and iPad with Xcode, the development environment which comes included wiht every Mac and copy of OS X).
Multitouch is technically a software feature but it's almost like hardware. It's just ... a thing. Like a keyboard or a mouse. What Apple does with that input, though, I find far more intuitive and useful (and far less frustrating/hassling) than I have found other tablets and smartphones. Apple is good at software. That they don't let other people look under the hood wrankles geeks, but their stuff is pretty, usable, and intuitive, without feeling hackneyed and artificially dumbed down. When I use Windows 7 at this point -- and Windows 7 is a good windows, at that -- it feels like Microsoft is apologizing all the time for the fact that I have to be using it. "Do you really want to install this?" "You probably shouldn't look in here." "Eh, not here either. Actually, running this isn't really a good idea, now that you mention it."
The iPhone OS dispenses with this in a pretty intense way -- by just not including any of the things that a desktop OS warns you about -- but it's still a piece of hardware you can plug into your Mac and (with a Developer membership) use to run your own personally compiled code. You can't sell it without the App store, that is true, but try getting a PSP game published and sold legally for money that you wrote out of your dorm room. Hahahah.
I think Mac OS reaches a nice compromise. The way the OS is inherently structured, it's unlikely that your mom will accidentally stumble on the BSD terminal, but they also don't go out of the way to hide it. You can browse to the "Utilities" directory without a full screen blue error saying "you are protected from this directory!!!" which must be dismissed, and double clicking the app will in fact bring up a terminal, without first asking you if you're sure you want to open the terminal. There is a trust in OS X that you're not an idiot, and that you're not going to bumble your way into disabling your firewall and erasing your config.sys file that Windows just doesn't have. Mac OS X "feels" like it is operating under the assumption that you actually want to use a computer. Windows spends half its runtime apologizing for its very existence.
Saying this probably makes me an Apple fanboy. Let's ignore the PC I built from parts and update about once a year, though, because that doesn't fit in with someone who might want to buy an iPad. I haven't had to replace a battery on either of the iPods or the iPhone that I have owned, but if I did, I would take it into an Apple Store and have it serviced, like any commercial appliance. If I want to upgrade my PC or my Mac desktop, I drive to Fry's and buy parts, like I would with any desktop computer. I don't know what the issue is.
Yeah. He used words to solve his argument though, all I can do is harness the power of Rage...
RAGE!
I got a netbook for $400 (Australian). It's pretty decent and it's got 9-12 hours battery life. It's an Asus EeePC 1000HE, and although it can't run Sam and Max, it can do pretty much everything else the Ipad boasts. And the DS has shown us that touchscreen is overrated for the most part.
I just don't know why you'd prefer Mac over Windows. It can do less than Windows, it's just "cooler". Somehow. Most people think it's over-rated and lame.
There various loopholes that are going to be there in various products. The multitouch concept would make no advantage in these applications. Also the rate should slow down now in order to satisfy its crazy viewers.
I think Mac OS reaches a nice compromise. The way the OS is inherently structured, it's unlikely that your mom will accidentally stumble on the BSD terminal, but they also don't go out of the way to hide it. You can browse to the "Utilities" directory without a full screen blue error saying "you are protected from this directory!!!" which must be dismissed, and double clicking the app will in fact bring up a terminal, without first asking you if you're sure you want to open the terminal. There is a trust in OS X that you're not an idiot, and that you're not going to bumble your way into disabling your firewall and erasing your config.sys file that Windows just doesn't have. Mac OS X "feels" like it is operating under the assumption that you actually want to use a computer. Windows spends half its runtime apologizing for its very existence.
That whole "User authentication control" can be switched off in like 3 clicks. and that FORBIDDEN blue screen of do not enter only shows up once. It's not really a problem after the first 10min of owning your computer.
People don't say that about a GBA, DS, PSP, etc. Those are some of the most hard-closed platforms in the universe -- and unlike the iPad and iPhone you can't simply develop for it using the software IDE that comes with your computer (you can develop for iPhone and iPad with Xcode, the development environment which comes included wiht every Mac and copy of OS X).
I know this is, technically, not my part of the discussion, but the GBA, DS, and PSP are gaming platforms. The iPad is supposed to be a computing device. The difference being that one should have a reasonable expectation of running programs that other people have written for the lulz on these platforms.
These self developed apps for the iPhone OS can't be distributed as far as I have been made aware of, at least not through open channels. Furthermore, it is difficult for me to imagine that there's not an undue amount of restriction on the sort of products one can write in Xcode.
Furthermore, one needs a Mac to write these programs, and Macs are still a very, very low market share in the desktop computer marketplace. Therefore, I still believe that it is a closed platform that should be open.
Ok, I'm done with that. I'll let Rather Dashing fight this battle for me as he seems a bit more... logical about it.
seriously guys, stop complaining about the lack of removable battery, no chargeable iPod related object has had a removable battery.
By late beloved mp3 player (sadly now dead - hence the "late") had removable rechargeable batteries, actually. Most of the time I just used the plug to charge it but if it ran out when I was out I could also just open it up and switch any AA batteries in instead.
That was a great mp3 player. I miss it.
Then my next mp3 player worked with batteries too. Or maybe even just one battery. It was a small USB thing though, didn't have a huge amount of room.
Multitouch is by no means unique in terms of upcoming tablets. Multitouch is used in the HP Slate, JooJoo, Notion Ink Adam, Dell Mini 5, Archos 7 Android, and Lenovo U1. I doubt this is anywhere near a comprehensive list either, it's simply a quick glance through major tablets in the tech world.
Not sure why I keep posting, but here goes another round:
JooJoo: 1 lb. heavier, half the battery life
What doesn’t portend well for the JooJoo is that the device doesn’t feel zippy. It has a 1.6 Ghz Atom processor and a Nvidia Ion graphics unit but still feels sluggish, especially when switching between screens. (Wired First Look)
The rest of the devices you mentioned aren't out yet, but from the press reports on the devices, I doubt any of them (with the possible exception of the Adam) will be as elegant a solution as the iPad in terms of size, weight, battery life, and UI design.
These other tablets will likely all have Flash support, cameras, more open application distribution, and expansion. If those things are important to you, then you'll have several devices to choose from. That is great! One device does not fit all. No one says you have to buy an iPad.
And you really can't ignore the absolutely incredible developer community that has arisen around the iPhone OS. There are a ton of very cool apps that are coming out for the iPad, that may become available for Android or other devices eventually, but will first be developed for the iPad. And to get back to the point of the thread - I can play Sam and Max on it! Telltale, one of my favorite gaming companies, is developing for it - and they aren't the only great developers working on software for this device.
For what I want to do, the benefits of Apple's design decisions outweigh the negatives. But if something comes out that is better then the iPad for what I need to do, I'll likely get that. In the meantime, I will be getting a lot of use out of my iPad starting tomorrow. Not sure why someone buying an iPad is so troubling to some people.
That whole "User authentication control" can be switched off in like 3 clicks. and that FORBIDDEN blue screen of do not enter only shows up once. It's not really a problem after the first 10min of owning your computer.
I'm glad it's easily rationalized away! I use both operating systems very regularly, and prefer Mac OS. Some people in my situation prefer Windows. By and large, though, I think most people who "prefer" Windows are not stating a true preference, because they haven't spent much time actually using Mac OS X in a productivity/development-oriented or professional environment. Maybe I'm wrong though!
Also, I don't actually dislike Windows. I use it every day and get a ton done in that OS. It has some positives over Mac OS, too (the open/close dialog boxes which started appearing around Windows 98, which let you do copy/paste and other file operations as if they were an Explorer window, for instance, are brilliant), but it stresses me out as a piece of software far more than OS X does.
Holy mother I wrote a lot here, reading it back. Well then. It's woth mentioning as usual that this is just me rambling, and isn't the opinion of Telltale or anything like that. Just my 2 cents. Or, 15 cents, given how long this post ended up!
I'd like to take this space to mention that I really appreciate and respect your input to the discussion, as I would for any member of the forum. Any sarcasm on my part isn't meant to infer otherwise, just to inject humor into an otherwise-dry post.
People don't say that about a GBA, DS, PSP, etc. Those are some of the most hard-closed platforms in the universe -- and unlike the iPad and iPhone you can't simply develop for it using the software IDE that comes with your computer (you can develop for iPhone and iPad with Xcode, the development environment which comes included wiht every Mac and copy of OS X).
The problem with comparing the iPad to a GBA, DS, PSP, or even any smart phone on the market is that those devices are meant for very limited purposes. The DS and PSP are for games. Smartphones are to make calls and do mobile computing in your pocket. The size excuses a lot, and the specific purpose of the device does a lot to excuse their closed nature. Also, there are very few open gaming devices and fewer open smartphones, it is a reality of the sector. When it comes to general computing devices, though, an open platform has been the status quo for ages. To get someone to replace a tablet with an open platform, a netbook, or a laptop with an iPad, a certain level of parity in terms of an open platform may be necessary. I don't know.
Multitouch is technically a software feature but it's almost like hardware. It's just ... a thing. Like a keyboard or a mouse. What Apple does with that input, though, I find far more intuitive and useful (and far less frustrating/hassling) than I have found other tablets and smartphones. Apple is good at software. That they don't let other people look under the hood wrankles geeks, but their stuff is pretty, usable, and intuitive, without feeling hackneyed and artificially dumbed down.
I've never gotten that impression, though it's certainly a subjective experience thing. I've found that apple does UI design pretty well, but I can't justify the nice UI and pretty hardware in exchange for, well, everything else.
And yes, keyboards and mice are things. Things that, if you want to use, you'd better be purchasing extra accessories for the iPad. USB, the most common means of adding accessories and external storage to a portable general-purpose computer, is not present here. And those have built-in trackpads and keyboards, generally.
When I use Windows 7 at this point -- and Windows 7 is a good windows, at that -- it feels like Microsoft is apologizing all the time for the fact that I have to be using it. "Do you really want to install this?" "You probably shouldn't look in here." "Eh, not here either. Actually, running this isn't really a good idea, now that you mention it.
I've gone ahead and shut up the majority of Windows queries. Yes, that they're on by default is an annoyance, but the widest developer base(for example, it was the only place to find Telltale games for a few years) is pretty well worth the trade-off to me. I suppose it's fine if you have a laptop and an iPad, a computer and a Mac, but that seems like a lot of money to sink into two devices that are intended for very similar purposes.
The iPhone OS dispenses with this in a pretty intense way -- by just not including any of the things that a desktop OS warns you about -- but it's still a piece of hardware you can plug into your Mac and (with a Developer membership) use to run your own personally compiled code. You can't sell it without the App store, that is true, but try getting a PSP game published and sold legally for money that you wrote out of your dorm room. Hahahah.
I think I addressed the PSP bit above. I think the problem with this software development is that it's all personal, and that Apple has control over distribution if you do try to sell your program. I doubt the locks are this strong on Mac OS development and distribution.
I think Mac OS reaches a nice compromise. The way the OS is inherently structured, it's unlikely that your mom will accidentally stumble on the BSD terminal, but they also don't go out of the way to hide it. You can browse to the "Utilities" directory without a full screen blue error saying "you are protected from this directory!!!" which must be dismissed, and double clicking the app will in fact bring up a terminal, without first asking you if you're sure you want to open the terminal. There is a trust in OS X that you're not an idiot, and that you're not going to bumble your way into disabling your firewall and erasing your config.sys file that Windows just doesn't have. Mac OS X "feels" like it is operating under the assumption that you actually want to use a computer. Windows spends half its runtime apologizing for its very existence.
I'm actually not sure how this part of the post is relevant, to be honest. It's just not related to the iPad at all. Comparisons of Windows 7 for tablets to the iPhone OS makes a good deal more sense than Windows 7 to Mac OSX, at least in terms of this discussion.
Saying this probably makes me an Apple fanboy. Let's ignore the PC I built from parts and update about once a year, though, because that doesn't fit in with someone who might want to buy an iPad. I haven't had to replace a battery on either of the iPods or the iPhone that I have owned, but if I did, I would take it into an Apple Store and have it serviced, like any commercial appliance. If I want to upgrade my PC or my Mac desktop, I drive to Fry's and buy parts, like I would with any desktop computer. I don't know what the issue is.
I don't believe anybody ever called you an Apple Fanboy. I'd probably question the wisdom of owning both platforms. I build my computers from parts I purchase at Fry's as well, and I simply don't understand the appeal of paying an extra one thousand dollars for a machine that is meant for very similar tasks. Maybe I'm missing something. I mean, missing something other than a $1,000 deficit in my bank account.
Not so much "rationalized" as it is "easily fixed". If my DS consistently made beeping sounds until I changed a setting(at which point it would stop forever), yes it would be a fault. But one that is so quickly shut down that it's not worth the trouble of calling it a consistent problem with the entire experience of the product.
And you really can't ignore the absolutely incredible developer community that has arisen around the iPhone OS. There are a ton of very cool apps that are coming out for the iPad, that may become available for Android or other devices eventually, but will first be developed for the iPad. And to get back to the point of the thread - I can play Sam and Max on it! Telltale, one of my favorite gaming companies, is developing for it - and they aren't the only great developers working on software for this device.
Yes I can. There is a better application development community around Windows. Now, for a very small and portable device like the iPhone or the iPod touch, I can understand that development community because there is no other equivalent in the mobile space. But I really doubt that there are killer apps on the iPhone OS that cannot be replicated in a Windows environment for a larger, general-computing device.
I'm bored! Thanks Jake! Also, just because I disagree with your like of Apple, that doesn't mean that I don't thoroughly enjoy your games! Keep up the good work! (Out of curiosity, have I ruined BioShock for anyone yet?)
I just don't know why you'd prefer Mac over Windows. It can do less than Windows, it's just "cooler". Somehow. Most people think it's over-rated and lame.
I know you said that a while back but I'm just reading it now.
Wait, what? Is it cooler, or do most people think it's overrated and lame? How could it be both at the same time?
I didn't like it in the first place and you're annoying me. Does that count?
I thought you raved about the atmosphere in the first act and said it was an average game. That's not not liking something... it's apathy. It's apathy and you know damn well that it is.
As for annoyance, I am flattered to have had an effect on your life. Truly, truly flattered. So yes. It counts.
I don't like apples, I prefer PC's I don't have a problem with apple users, and I don't have a problem with PC users.
But it's cool that the Ipad users get something(Will not buy one) I just think it's cool they get something the rest of us have been playing with for about 3-4 years so good for them.
I've never gotten that impression, though it's certainly a subjective experience thing. I've found that apple does UI design pretty well, but I can't justify the nice UI and pretty hardware in exchange for, well, everything else.
Speaking for myself, I don't perceive the trade-off as "prettiness" for everything else, but as losing a few things which ultimately have no impact on my productivity for a more intuitive experience. I'm not one to vouch for every single aspect of Apple's closed system (
Blu-ray is a "bag of hurt" my ass
), but as you mentioned, there is a subjectiveness at work here that -- now to add a bit to what you said -- cuts both ways. Which leads me to ...
I don't believe anybody ever called you an Apple Fanboy. I'd probably question the wisdom of owning both platforms. I build my computers from parts I purchase at Fry's as well, and I simply don't understand the appeal of paying an extra one thousand dollars for a machine that is meant for very similar tasks. Maybe I'm missing something. I mean, missing something other than a $1,000 deficit in my bank account.
Because -- again, speaking for myself -- there are things both Windows and OSX do and don't do well. If you (general "you", that is) find that your life is made easier by having both platforms at hand and can afford owning them, it becomes a question of "Why not?"
I'm actually not sure how this part of the post is relevant, to be honest. It's just not related to the iPad at all. Comparisons of Windows 7 for tablets to the iPhone OS makes a good deal more sense than Windows 7 to Mac OSX, at least in terms of this discussion.
Probably because the discussion has moved somewhat away from just the iPad and on to Apple and its products in general.
i don't like apples, i prefer pc's i don't have a problem with apple users, and i don't have a problem with pc users.
But it's cool that the ipad users get something(will not buy one) i just think it's cool they get something the rest of us have been playing with for about 3-4 years so good for them.
speaking for myself, i don't perceive the trade-off as "prettiness" for everything else, but as losing a few things which ultimately have no impact on my productivity for a more intuitive experience. I'm not one to vouch for every single aspect of apple's closed system (
blu-ray is a "bag of hurt" my ass
), but as you said, there is a subjectiveness at work here that cuts both ways. Which leads me to ...
Because -- again, speaking for myself -- there are things both windows and osx do and don't do well. If you (general "you", that is) find that your life is made easier by having both platforms at hand and can afford owning them, it becomes a question of "why not?"
probably because the discussion has moved somewhat away from just the ipad and on to apple and its products in general.
This has definately made me want an iPad more, especially when A. Gen 2 comes out with infinitely better features and B. It becomes cheaper. Hopefully same time as Letter A.
iPad is not a computer. It's a locked and limited device. It's just like a big iPod touch, and that's why it's so interesting. Since now, we never had the opportunity to use such a big very well working multitouch input (many multitouch devices have poor sensors). Since now, we never had the chance to use it with an UI made for that input (a click is not a touch, it's not the same thing at all).
It is not a computer, it's a small multitouch device. Remember when the first iPhone was launched, there was no AppStore. Just webapps. Then, Apple saw that webapps couldn't replace real apps, so they provided a SDK, they decided, for the convenience of devs and end users, to make an online market, like on gaming console, where every project is accepted by the brand, then protectd by DRM and put on the search engine, hosted, and avalaible in a 1-click purchase people trust. Things are a lot easier for the developpers (no SN, online store to manage, referencing etc.), and easier than ever for the end user, who know where to search, and once you pushed the "buy" button, it's done. It's not the future of computing, it's probably not the future of mac, it's just the convenient user experience you buy when you buy an iPhone or an iPad. The AppStore is a convenience store. The iPad is a convenient device.
Mac OS X still let you develop what you want, and windows, Linux, and otherplaforms still exist. Not a big deal.
I don't understand why all those big words, don't you know Nintendo's Quality Seal ? more than 20 years of verification, and no one complains. Sure, it sometimes can lead to akward situations, like carmageddon 64 where the goal is to kill dinosaurs instead of people, however, for the end user, the end user who don't want to bother with computers all the time, it makes sense.
Please stop making akward comparisons with real problems like China, it's more than childish and bad taste, we're just talking about a cool multitouch device you don't want to buy. You're too serious in some way, it's only entertainment and covenience here, and what is covenient for me may not be that convenient for you, no reason to get angry or have any hate. I know enough people who don't care about what you say if in the other hand we bring them convenience.
Buy a joojoo if you want, who cares ? If it's what you like, do it ! Just don't vomit on people and companies like that. When I vomit, it means I should see a doctor.
I love how BoingBoing has Cory's "Don't buy an iPad because it's terrible and I hate things" post immediately after an iPad app review and a little ahead of a how-to for making a lap stand for an iPad. Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled format discussion...
Congrats to you, Telltale. I hope you got a rather large bucket of money for securing this. I couldn't care less about Apple really, but I want Telltale Games to be highly successful and if this helps... then so be it.
Congrats to you, Telltale. I hope you got a rather large bucket of money for securing this. I couldn't care less about Apple really, but I want Telltale Games to be highly successful and if this helps... then so be it.
btw: 500th post!
btw: just put it in your signature! then you can tell everyone how many posts you've done several times per page!
not that anyone in particular does this... at an extravagant size... :winslow:
btw: just put it in your signature! then you can tell everyone how many posts you've done several times per page!
not that anyone in particular does this... at an extravagant size... :winslow:
You know, the big 750 is so very, very close... Maybe you should start planning how you'll do that? You can't just keep 700's layout.
Comments
All of Telltale is apple fanboys. And they have to be, if a staff member speaks out and says Apple is stupid, they lose their job. It's the same with any job really, all the decisions are made above you and you generally just have to go along with it.
I've owned Apples and Macs on and off my whole life, and worked there for a couple years. I like their products. I work well on them. If either of those two things cease to be the case (as they have occasionally on and off over the last 25 years), I don't buy them. But in my opinion they make good stuff. I enjoy both their current operating system, and their hardware design.
You don't take issue with the fact that they close off development and the ability to do simple maintenance such as changing out your battery on an iPod? These are some of my main concerns with the company. Sure, I have a few minor nitpicks, but this is true of even companies that I love. These are simply some major concerns that make me wary of Apple.
EDIT: Of note, though, is that I adore vintage Apples from the Wozniak era and would likely procure an Apple II if presented the opportunity. I just don't like new Apple; with their closed systems, overly simple interfaces, lack of customization and - to a lesser extent - their 'hipster' aesthetic.
There's an app for that..
I am one, but to the extent that i am only annoyed by people who hate apple products that have obviously never tried one (IE: Andrew Ryan)
Well, I wouldn't complain about it if they could fix the problem. If they don't want people complaining, why don't they fix it?
Furthermore, not only have I had the dreadful misfortune of using an Apple computer, I was unfortunate enough to own an iPod touch. Sure, it was a functional mp3 player, and I could even use it to browse the Internet. However, I could not do simple things, like save images, run flash, copy/paste text or even change out the battery. Eventually, as all poorly constructed electronics do, the battery on my iPod died. Mine was a 1st generation iPod touch, and the generously named "geniuses" refused to swap my battery. Their advice? Buy a pre-owned iPod touch. Needless to say, I've loathed Apple since.
No, the odd man out on the feature list is a lack of flash support. That seems to be almost universally supported, and the iPad is a black sheep in this regard. I like Flash, because it has a good developer community creating innovative software, video, and web content. Cameras are also a common feature in tablets, one that is absent here.
Almost all tablet PCs are going to be thin and lightweight, but I do have to give Apple props on design in this regard. Still, hardware that you can't open is ridiculous. Inability to replace a battery, no slots for expandable memory? USB ports as an additional accessory? Perhaps the iPad is so light and thin because they took out all those weighty, fatty features that every competent tablet has.
Battery life is a strong aspect of the Apple product. The Notion Ink Adam has a reported longer one by 6 hours, and the pricing is said to be aggressively low on the thing come release time.
Battery life and form factor seem to be great points in the thing's favor, and I'll give it that. I think that "simple and to the point" hardware ends up taking out far too much in the name of simplicity, and a similar argument goes for the UI and OS. You trade a lot of freedom for that pretty interface, and it lacks the meat, the features, and the capabilities of many similar products on the market.
Holy mother I wrote a lot here, reading it back. Well then. It's woth mentioning as usual that this is just me rambling, and isn't the opinion of Telltale or anything like that. Just my 2 cents. Or, 15 cents, given how long this post ended up!
People don't say that about a GBA, DS, PSP, etc. Those are some of the most hard-closed platforms in the universe -- and unlike the iPad and iPhone you can't simply develop for it using the software IDE that comes with your computer (you can develop for iPhone and iPad with Xcode, the development environment which comes included wiht every Mac and copy of OS X).
Multitouch is technically a software feature but it's almost like hardware. It's just ... a thing. Like a keyboard or a mouse. What Apple does with that input, though, I find far more intuitive and useful (and far less frustrating/hassling) than I have found other tablets and smartphones. Apple is good at software. That they don't let other people look under the hood wrankles geeks, but their stuff is pretty, usable, and intuitive, without feeling hackneyed and artificially dumbed down. When I use Windows 7 at this point -- and Windows 7 is a good windows, at that -- it feels like Microsoft is apologizing all the time for the fact that I have to be using it. "Do you really want to install this?" "You probably shouldn't look in here." "Eh, not here either. Actually, running this isn't really a good idea, now that you mention it."
The iPhone OS dispenses with this in a pretty intense way -- by just not including any of the things that a desktop OS warns you about -- but it's still a piece of hardware you can plug into your Mac and (with a Developer membership) use to run your own personally compiled code. You can't sell it without the App store, that is true, but try getting a PSP game published and sold legally for money that you wrote out of your dorm room. Hahahah.
I think Mac OS reaches a nice compromise. The way the OS is inherently structured, it's unlikely that your mom will accidentally stumble on the BSD terminal, but they also don't go out of the way to hide it. You can browse to the "Utilities" directory without a full screen blue error saying "you are protected from this directory!!!" which must be dismissed, and double clicking the app will in fact bring up a terminal, without first asking you if you're sure you want to open the terminal. There is a trust in OS X that you're not an idiot, and that you're not going to bumble your way into disabling your firewall and erasing your config.sys file that Windows just doesn't have. Mac OS X "feels" like it is operating under the assumption that you actually want to use a computer. Windows spends half its runtime apologizing for its very existence.
Saying this probably makes me an Apple fanboy. Let's ignore the PC I built from parts and update about once a year, though, because that doesn't fit in with someone who might want to buy an iPad. I haven't had to replace a battery on either of the iPods or the iPhone that I have owned, but if I did, I would take it into an Apple Store and have it serviced, like any commercial appliance. If I want to upgrade my PC or my Mac desktop, I drive to Fry's and buy parts, like I would with any desktop computer. I don't know what the issue is.
RAGE!
I got a netbook for $400 (Australian). It's pretty decent and it's got 9-12 hours battery life. It's an Asus EeePC 1000HE, and although it can't run Sam and Max, it can do pretty much everything else the Ipad boasts. And the DS has shown us that touchscreen is overrated for the most part.
I just don't know why you'd prefer Mac over Windows. It can do less than Windows, it's just "cooler". Somehow. Most people think it's over-rated and lame.
That whole "User authentication control" can be switched off in like 3 clicks. and that FORBIDDEN blue screen of do not enter only shows up once. It's not really a problem after the first 10min of owning your computer.
I know this is, technically, not my part of the discussion, but the GBA, DS, and PSP are gaming platforms. The iPad is supposed to be a computing device. The difference being that one should have a reasonable expectation of running programs that other people have written for the lulz on these platforms.
These self developed apps for the iPhone OS can't be distributed as far as I have been made aware of, at least not through open channels. Furthermore, it is difficult for me to imagine that there's not an undue amount of restriction on the sort of products one can write in Xcode.
Furthermore, one needs a Mac to write these programs, and Macs are still a very, very low market share in the desktop computer marketplace. Therefore, I still believe that it is a closed platform that should be open.
Ok, I'm done with that. I'll let Rather Dashing fight this battle for me as he seems a bit more... logical about it.
By late beloved mp3 player (sadly now dead - hence the "late") had removable rechargeable batteries, actually. Most of the time I just used the plug to charge it but if it ran out when I was out I could also just open it up and switch any AA batteries in instead.
That was a great mp3 player. I miss it.
Then my next mp3 player worked with batteries too. Or maybe even just one battery. It was a small USB thing though, didn't have a huge amount of room.
Not sure why I keep posting, but here goes another round:
JooJoo: 1 lb. heavier, half the battery life
The rest of the devices you mentioned aren't out yet, but from the press reports on the devices, I doubt any of them (with the possible exception of the Adam) will be as elegant a solution as the iPad in terms of size, weight, battery life, and UI design.
These other tablets will likely all have Flash support, cameras, more open application distribution, and expansion. If those things are important to you, then you'll have several devices to choose from. That is great! One device does not fit all. No one says you have to buy an iPad.
And you really can't ignore the absolutely incredible developer community that has arisen around the iPhone OS. There are a ton of very cool apps that are coming out for the iPad, that may become available for Android or other devices eventually, but will first be developed for the iPad. And to get back to the point of the thread - I can play Sam and Max on it! Telltale, one of my favorite gaming companies, is developing for it - and they aren't the only great developers working on software for this device.
For what I want to do, the benefits of Apple's design decisions outweigh the negatives. But if something comes out that is better then the iPad for what I need to do, I'll likely get that. In the meantime, I will be getting a lot of use out of my iPad starting tomorrow. Not sure why someone buying an iPad is so troubling to some people.
Oh, and everything Jake said more elegantly above.
I'm glad it's easily rationalized away! I use both operating systems very regularly, and prefer Mac OS. Some people in my situation prefer Windows. By and large, though, I think most people who "prefer" Windows are not stating a true preference, because they haven't spent much time actually using Mac OS X in a productivity/development-oriented or professional environment. Maybe I'm wrong though!
Also, I don't actually dislike Windows. I use it every day and get a ton done in that OS. It has some positives over Mac OS, too (the open/close dialog boxes which started appearing around Windows 98, which let you do copy/paste and other file operations as if they were an Explorer window, for instance, are brilliant), but it stresses me out as a piece of software far more than OS X does.
The problem with comparing the iPad to a GBA, DS, PSP, or even any smart phone on the market is that those devices are meant for very limited purposes. The DS and PSP are for games. Smartphones are to make calls and do mobile computing in your pocket. The size excuses a lot, and the specific purpose of the device does a lot to excuse their closed nature. Also, there are very few open gaming devices and fewer open smartphones, it is a reality of the sector. When it comes to general computing devices, though, an open platform has been the status quo for ages. To get someone to replace a tablet with an open platform, a netbook, or a laptop with an iPad, a certain level of parity in terms of an open platform may be necessary. I don't know.
I've never gotten that impression, though it's certainly a subjective experience thing. I've found that apple does UI design pretty well, but I can't justify the nice UI and pretty hardware in exchange for, well, everything else.
And yes, keyboards and mice are things. Things that, if you want to use, you'd better be purchasing extra accessories for the iPad. USB, the most common means of adding accessories and external storage to a portable general-purpose computer, is not present here. And those have built-in trackpads and keyboards, generally.
I've gone ahead and shut up the majority of Windows queries. Yes, that they're on by default is an annoyance, but the widest developer base(for example, it was the only place to find Telltale games for a few years) is pretty well worth the trade-off to me. I suppose it's fine if you have a laptop and an iPad, a computer and a Mac, but that seems like a lot of money to sink into two devices that are intended for very similar purposes.
I think I addressed the PSP bit above. I think the problem with this software development is that it's all personal, and that Apple has control over distribution if you do try to sell your program. I doubt the locks are this strong on Mac OS development and distribution.
I'm actually not sure how this part of the post is relevant, to be honest. It's just not related to the iPad at all. Comparisons of Windows 7 for tablets to the iPhone OS makes a good deal more sense than Windows 7 to Mac OSX, at least in terms of this discussion.
I don't believe anybody ever called you an Apple Fanboy. I'd probably question the wisdom of owning both platforms. I build my computers from parts I purchase at Fry's as well, and I simply don't understand the appeal of paying an extra one thousand dollars for a machine that is meant for very similar tasks. Maybe I'm missing something. I mean, missing something other than a $1,000 deficit in my bank account.
Not so much "rationalized" as it is "easily fixed". If my DS consistently made beeping sounds until I changed a setting(at which point it would stop forever), yes it would be a fault. But one that is so quickly shut down that it's not worth the trouble of calling it a consistent problem with the entire experience of the product.
Yes I can. There is a better application development community around Windows. Now, for a very small and portable device like the iPhone or the iPod touch, I can understand that development community because there is no other equivalent in the mobile space. But I really doubt that there are killer apps on the iPhone OS that cannot be replicated in a Windows environment for a larger, general-computing device.
this guy thinks its the worst
this guy disagrees
so does this guy
she wants to tell you why to not buy one right now... but maybe later?
I'm bored! Thanks Jake! Also, just because I disagree with your like of Apple, that doesn't mean that I don't thoroughly enjoy your games! Keep up the good work! (Out of curiosity, have I ruined BioShock for anyone yet?)
I know you said that a while back but I'm just reading it now.
Wait, what? Is it cooler, or do most people think it's overrated and lame? How could it be both at the same time?
I thought you raved about the atmosphere in the first act and said it was an average game. That's not not liking something... it's apathy. It's apathy and you know damn well that it is.
As for annoyance, I am flattered to have had an effect on your life. Truly, truly flattered. So yes. It counts.
I miss Crank Yankers...
But it's cool that the Ipad users get something(Will not buy one) I just think it's cool they get something the rest of us have been playing with for about 3-4 years so good for them.
Speaking for myself, I don't perceive the trade-off as "prettiness" for everything else, but as losing a few things which ultimately have no impact on my productivity for a more intuitive experience. I'm not one to vouch for every single aspect of Apple's closed system (
Because -- again, speaking for myself -- there are things both Windows and OSX do and don't do well. If you (general "you", that is) find that your life is made easier by having both platforms at hand and can afford owning them, it becomes a question of "Why not?"
Probably because the discussion has moved somewhat away from just the iPad and on to Apple and its products in general.
But it's cool that the clementine users get something(Will not eat those) I just think it's cool they wait this analogy is falling apart
C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!!!
Also, I am disappointed to learn that you can't cruise control cool in this forum.
It is not a computer, it's a small multitouch device. Remember when the first iPhone was launched, there was no AppStore. Just webapps. Then, Apple saw that webapps couldn't replace real apps, so they provided a SDK, they decided, for the convenience of devs and end users, to make an online market, like on gaming console, where every project is accepted by the brand, then protectd by DRM and put on the search engine, hosted, and avalaible in a 1-click purchase people trust. Things are a lot easier for the developpers (no SN, online store to manage, referencing etc.), and easier than ever for the end user, who know where to search, and once you pushed the "buy" button, it's done. It's not the future of computing, it's probably not the future of mac, it's just the convenient user experience you buy when you buy an iPhone or an iPad. The AppStore is a convenience store. The iPad is a convenient device.
Mac OS X still let you develop what you want, and windows, Linux, and otherplaforms still exist. Not a big deal.
I don't understand why all those big words, don't you know Nintendo's Quality Seal ? more than 20 years of verification, and no one complains. Sure, it sometimes can lead to akward situations, like carmageddon 64 where the goal is to kill dinosaurs instead of people, however, for the end user, the end user who don't want to bother with computers all the time, it makes sense.
Please stop making akward comparisons with real problems like China, it's more than childish and bad taste, we're just talking about a cool multitouch device you don't want to buy. You're too serious in some way, it's only entertainment and covenience here, and what is covenient for me may not be that convenient for you, no reason to get angry or have any hate. I know enough people who don't care about what you say if in the other hand we bring them convenience.
Buy a joojoo if you want, who cares ? If it's what you like, do it ! Just don't vomit on people and companies like that. When I vomit, it means I should see a doctor.
I love how BoingBoing has Cory's "Don't buy an iPad because it's terrible and I hate things" post immediately after an iPad app review and a little ahead of a how-to for making a lap stand for an iPad. Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled format discussion...
Even with cruise control you still have to steer
Well, you're SHODAN. Sure, your game was better... and so was your villain... I think I shot myself in the foot here.
btw: 500th post!
btw: just put it in your signature! then you can tell everyone how many posts you've done several times per page!
not that anyone in particular does this... at an extravagant size... :winslow:
You know, the big 750 is so very, very close... Maybe you should start planning how you'll do that? You can't just keep 700's layout.