Dammit, Richard Curtis, why are you so good at making me cry?
I really liked this episode. Van Gogh was a great character. I rarely feel so much for a one-episode character - he was well written and extraordinarily well played, perfect for such a touching story.
Then there's Bill Nighy, a luminous presence whatever he's in. The scene where he and the Doctor compliment each other's bow ties was lovely.
This will probably be one of the best episodes of the series for me.
the guy with the cool bow tie was saying how great van gogh was and he was crying and thanked him and for a second the guy thought it might be van gogh that was a great peice of television
I would go for that list except I would add The Celestial Toymaker for the First Doctor...
Except that this doesn't exist except on audio.
I had trouble choosing adventures for the 1st and 2nd Doctors as most of their best episodes are missing.
Of the 1st doctor, I've now watched the Unearthly Child, Dead Planet (introduction of the Daleks) and now The Celestial Toymaker.
Yes, it's frustrating to only be able to watch a recreation of the first 3 parts using press photos, screen grabs, and other animation, but the Celestial Toymaker is totally worth it. It's just a great episode that really holds up.
You think the movie "Saw" was revolutionary? The Celestial Toymaker was obviously written and filmed to be appropriate and classy for the times, but there is that glimmer of pitting people against each other, that joy at other people's expense (schadenfreude) but in the dignified manner that only the 1st doctor could pull off. If Dodo weren't constantly lightening the mood and being foolishly optimistic, this would be a DARK story. As dark as any of Steven Moffat's episodes.
After watching The Dead Planet and the Unearthly Child, I thought I'd probably not watch any more 1st doctor episodes. But now I'm tempted to watch more, even fan recreations using the recorded audio.
After watching The Dead Planet and the Unearthly Child, I thought I'd probably not watch any more 1st doctor episodes. But now I'm tempted to watch more, even fan recreations using the recorded audio.
The Edge of Destruction, The Gunfighters, and The Romans are also First Doctor episodes you might want to try. No rubber monsters and nice flow. The Edge of Destruction is rather weird and slightly creepy, a bit like Midnight, The Gunfighters has fun music and cowboys, and The Romans was referenced in the new series Fires of Pompeii.
So do i. Although, most of the paintings in that exhibit aren't even in the same country (the sunflowers are in London for example)!
I think the museum in the show was a special exhibit of the type where museums lend each other paintings so they can have a complete collection for a little while.
I really liked the new episode. Half the reason I started to watch Doctor Who was because I heard Richard Curtis was writing an episode. Happy to say it didn't disappoint. It's a little different from the rest of the series: there's not many thrills to be had; the monster simply drives the characters, not the story. But it makes for a magical if sad story. It made me want to know more about Van Gogh.
Overall, I was really happy with it. And Bill Nighy's casting was spot-on. Wish there were more episodes like this.
I totally hated the episode, but probably just because the end angered me.
For the first half hour or so things were looking classy, and developing really nicely, and as a story it flowed much better than the others so far. Also there wasn't a bit where the doctor shouts run, and I sit back thinking "ok this is the bit where I wait mindlessly for them to stop running".
Without the ending, it was one of the best. But the ending just totally made me :mad:
"It doesn't matter what you do for unhappy people. It'll be nice at the time, but ultimately, they'll be just as unhappy in the long run." NO. Do not encourage the whole nation to believe that horrible message.
After Curtis' pre-2000 stuff, I liked him. After his post-2000 stuff, I liked him, but thought he was going downhill a bit. I now absolutely despise him. [/rant]
"It doesn't matter what you do for unhappy people. It'll be nice at the time, but ultimately, they'll be just as unhappy in the long run." NO. Do not encourage the whole nation to believe that horrible message.
Unfortunately, it can be true. I lost two friends to suicide. I was the best person I could be. Some people, you can pull away. I pulled myself away. Others...some people just can't deal with damage, sometimes. I can forgive them for wanting out, even if I don't like it.
Very glad to hear you were the best you could be for them.
I doubt totally that, in most cases, there isn't at least one person who could provide the solution, but doesn't. It's just a particularly nasty thought, so we often prefer to just blame the victim, under the guise of an imaginary illness.
When a show suggests that Van Gough, even knowing that he was going to be loved in the future by most of mankind, wouldn't have mulled over killing himself for a second longer than he did, I find it very insulting. Though I do not know anything about Van Gough's case (and after looking it up for a bit, neither does anyone else) that would have changed things. By implying that the actions of others were irrelevant, it excuses the everyday maltreatment of the unhappy.
The show drummed up feelings of sympathy. We have a tendency to think that sympathy is good. It shows understanding and can motivate us to do better. But really, it's our body's way of buying us out of the much more painful and justified feeling of guilt.
Trust me, we don't. You end up blaming yourself forever.
I think the point is that by the time Amy and the Doctor had actually met Vincent, he's been abused far too much, far too often and for far too long for human kindness to save him. It's not easy, because, like Amy, you think you've done a good job and then, well.
I don't know. I'm optimistic. I think you can save people if you try long and hard and let them grow a bit on their own. But sometimes it's hard to escape that void. Overall, the episode seemed, to me, to be very honest. I wouldn't be surprised if Richard Curtis had lost a friend to suicide in the same way.
For me it was more of a "you can't step in make a quick fix." Not to mention, the ever difficult "no matter how much you care or want something for someone they still have their own agency and will make the choices they wish."
The trouble comes in generalizing it too much-- because for some people you CAN and DO make a difference. But there will always be those that no matter what you do they will make that choice-- and apparently Vincent in this scenario was one of them. I appreciate Curtis showing that because I've been there and it is so frustrating but its still very accurate. You just have to keep making the choice to care and try to make a difference despite the fact that despite your efforts you could not change the decision of that one person because people always have the right to choose. And that's what the Doctor and Amy are doing now-- continuing on, trying to make a difference despite the fact that they couldn't save Vincent. Because surely somewhere down the road there will be people they CAN save.
I doubt totally that, in most cases, there isn't at least one person who could provide the solution, but doesn't. It's just a particularly nasty thought, so we often prefer to just blame the victim, under the guise of an imaginary illness.
When a show suggests that Van Gough, even knowing that he was going to be loved in the future by most of mankind, wouldn't have mulled over killing himself for a second longer than he did, I find it very insulting. Though I do not know anything about Van Gough's case (and after looking it up for a bit, neither does anyone else) that would have changed things. By implying that the actions of others were irrelevant, it excuses the everyday maltreatment of the unhappy.
The show drummed up feelings of sympathy. We have a tendency to think that sympathy is good. It shows understanding and can motivate us to do better. But really, it's our body's way of buying us out of the much more painful and justified feeling of guilt.
I think Van Gogh's problem (in this story, anyway) was that he wasn't loved in HIS time. He felt like there was no-one who cared. That can be an incredibly depressing feeling. People in the future may have loved him, but he'd be long dead by then. So while the Doctor and Amy may have made him temporarily happy, they didn't change anything in the long term. He's still in a place where nobody likes him or his work, he's still not with anyone who cares about him, he's still depressed...
Also, FYI? No U in Gogh. Weird, I know. Reminds me of that Achmed the Dead Terrorist sketch. 'How do you spell it?' 'Uh, let's see... A... C... Flem...'
Trust me, we don't. You end up blaming yourself forever.
I think we're talking about a different group of people here. I didn't mean those who have experienced the suicide of a loved one, about their individual cases. All sorts of things will go on with them. I won't trust you on that, mind, because it's a generalisation, and everyone is gonna be different, especially after such a dramatic event.
I think the point is that by the time Amy and the Doctor had actually met Vincent, he's been abused far too much, far too often and for far too long for human kindness to save him. It's not easy, because, like Amy, you think you've done a good job and then, well.
Yes. That is what I think is a highly dangerous message, and one that is fallacious for many cases. In this case, we do not know the reasons for the suicide, but what Amy and the Doctor did wasn't "good," It was absolutely exceptional, and even if Vincent did still eventually decide to kill himself, it wouldn't have come about at the exact same time.
I don't know. I'm optimistic. I think you can save people if you try long and hard and let them grow a bit on their own. But sometimes it's hard to escape that void. Overall, the episode seemed, to me, to be very honest. I wouldn't be surprised if Richard Curtis had lost a friend to suicide in the same way.
This seems to be contradictory. If you're optimistic and think that people can be saved, then surely you would expect the doctor and Amy to have changed something. The episode seemed to me the same old drivel that gets pumped out about the upset and excuses our maltreatment, while at the same time appearing to be sympathetic on the cover.
I've been watching the old Doctor Who for the first time recently-- watching the seventh doctor at the moment. And at one point he states that he is 953 years old. The sixth doctor also stated several times that he's 900 years old. And I could have sworn I've heard the current doctor say he's 907-- I certainly know I've heard the tenth doctor state numbers in the early 900's. How could he be on a later regeneration but be younger? Did I miss something here? Is this an oversight on the part of the writers? Or is this a clue to something Time War related? Does anyone know? Or just have a really interesting theory?
Not to double post but one of my thoughts has been that because time was messed with so much during the time war it actually ran backwards at some point or something equally convoluted.
This is annoying to me as well, especially since in the books that came out between the TV series and the movie, the Doctor celebrates his 1,000th birthday!
My solution? He's around 1,100 in Gallifreyan years, and 907 in Earth years.
I haven't read the books. Do they explain any more about the Time War, or is that just something brought in with the new series? I did read a little about it in The Forgotten, but that was just a brief scene that brought up more questions than it answered. Really, I hope that some point along the way it's clearly explained what all happened there.
This is annoying to me as well, especially since in the books that came out between the TV series and the movie, the Doctor celebrates his 1,000th birthday!
My solution? He's around 1,100 in Gallifreyan years, and 907 in Earth years.
I haven't read the books. Do they explain any more about the Time War, or is that just something brought in with the new series? I did read a little about it in The Forgotten, but that was just a brief scene that brought up more questions than it answered. Really, I hope that some point along the way it's clearly explained what all happened there.
The Time War is something new for the 2005 series, and was a way of getting rid of the whole Time Lord malarky of the old series. Now we get the Doctor, the last of his race, a 'lonely god'.
The actual Time War hasn't really been fully explained yet, and I'd be surprised if it ever is. But basically, the Daleks and the Time Lords declared war on each other. The resulting conflict has countless 'civilian casualties', and ended in the mutual destruction of both the Daleks and the Time Lords. Or so the Doctor thought...
It's been heavily hinted that it was the Doctor who ended the war by destroying his own race, and in The End of Time, it's revealed why - to avoid letting them end the war with the destruction of reality itself, elevating Time Lord to beings of pure conciousness while letting everything else be completely wiped out.
More information about the Time War can be found on the Wikipedia page.
Moffat's provided a rather nice explanation regarding the Doctor's age in that the Doctor really doesn't know. Considering that he does nothing but time travel all the, er, time, it's really hard to keep track of how old he is from one day to the next, considering that days to him can be as short as five minutes if he doesn't like it, or in some cases keep going back and forth to the same night! He probably just made up a good even number when Rose came along when actually he's far, far older, and has only been able to stick with it because companions have helped him guess better at the passing of time. Especially since they kept dragging him back to Earth! That should help him, following years in order, at least!
Moffat's provided a rather nice explanation regarding the Doctor's age in that the Doctor really doesn't know. Considering that he does nothing but time travel all the, er, time, it's really hard to keep track of how old he is from one day to the next, considering that days to him can be as short as five minutes if he doesn't like it, or in some cases keep going back and forth to the same night! He probably just made up a good even number when Rose came along when actually he's far, far older, and has only been able to stick with it because companions have helped him guess better at the passing of time. Especially since they kept dragging him back to Earth! That should help him, following years in order, at least!
Thats as good of an explanation as i'll ever need!
Anyway, what were your thoughts on tonights episode? It was okay, especially seeing as it was the low budget,main character lite episode (think Midnight, Love & monsters in previous episodes), anyway the last bit of the next time trailer excited me!
Seriously, I hope he lies about his age on purpose because it would be hilarious, trying to appear a bit younger by shaving off a few hundred years. It would be like the fattest man in the world lying about his weight by saying he only weighed eight hundred pounds.
This week's episode was surprisingly enjoyable. Very untypically Who, which has been a theme all series, I guess. Not so much the Doctor-lite episode, but it was companion-lite. You don't miss her though, which is nice.
I really enjoyed last night's ep. It was funny, seeing the Doctor trying to be an ordinary bloke, and not being convincing in the slightest! And James Corden wasn't too bad either (surprisingly)!
Next week's ep really does look epic, though! Can't wait to find out what the hell's been going on over the past 10 weeks!
The crack isnt following amy its following the doctor amy was never in that house or even anywhere near it. plus every other occasion the dr's been there to.
The cracks can only be stopped by stuff like the Doctor being flung into them, Which is exactly the kind of person who could end up causing them. Which of course means that this entire disaster could have been averted had the TARDIS landed in someone else yard instead of young Amy's
I am loving this Seasons arc
Edit: Sorry, series. I am so used to season, being American and all. This Series has felt like a season of Eureka here. Individual stories, large arc spanning through them
Comments
I really liked this episode. Van Gogh was a great character. I rarely feel so much for a one-episode character - he was well written and extraordinarily well played, perfect for such a touching story.
Then there's Bill Nighy, a luminous presence whatever he's in. The scene where he and the Doctor compliment each other's bow ties was lovely.
This will probably be one of the best episodes of the series for me.
So do i. Although, most of the paintings in that exhibit aren't even in the same country (the sunflowers are in London for example)!
Yes, it's frustrating to only be able to watch a recreation of the first 3 parts using press photos, screen grabs, and other animation, but the Celestial Toymaker is totally worth it. It's just a great episode that really holds up.
You think the movie "Saw" was revolutionary? The Celestial Toymaker was obviously written and filmed to be appropriate and classy for the times, but there is that glimmer of pitting people against each other, that joy at other people's expense (schadenfreude) but in the dignified manner that only the 1st doctor could pull off. If Dodo weren't constantly lightening the mood and being foolishly optimistic, this would be a DARK story. As dark as any of Steven Moffat's episodes.
After watching The Dead Planet and the Unearthly Child, I thought I'd probably not watch any more 1st doctor episodes. But now I'm tempted to watch more, even fan recreations using the recorded audio.
The Edge of Destruction, The Gunfighters, and The Romans are also First Doctor episodes you might want to try. No rubber monsters and nice flow. The Edge of Destruction is rather weird and slightly creepy, a bit like Midnight, The Gunfighters has fun music and cowboys, and The Romans was referenced in the new series Fires of Pompeii.
I think the museum in the show was a special exhibit of the type where museums lend each other paintings so they can have a complete collection for a little while.
Overall, I was really happy with it. And Bill Nighy's casting was spot-on.
For the first half hour or so things were looking classy, and developing really nicely, and as a story it flowed much better than the others so far. Also there wasn't a bit where the doctor shouts run, and I sit back thinking "ok this is the bit where I wait mindlessly for them to stop running".
Without the ending, it was one of the best. But the ending just totally made me :mad:
"It doesn't matter what you do for unhappy people. It'll be nice at the time, but ultimately, they'll be just as unhappy in the long run." NO. Do not encourage the whole nation to believe that horrible message.
After Curtis' pre-2000 stuff, I liked him. After his post-2000 stuff, I liked him, but thought he was going downhill a bit. I now absolutely despise him. [/rant]
More of a stay in peoples lives, keep making them happy.
Unfortunately, it can be true. I lost two friends to suicide. I was the best person I could be. Some people, you can pull away. I pulled myself away. Others...some people just can't deal with damage, sometimes. I can forgive them for wanting out, even if I don't like it.
I doubt totally that, in most cases, there isn't at least one person who could provide the solution, but doesn't. It's just a particularly nasty thought, so we often prefer to just blame the victim, under the guise of an imaginary illness.
When a show suggests that Van Gough, even knowing that he was going to be loved in the future by most of mankind, wouldn't have mulled over killing himself for a second longer than he did, I find it very insulting. Though I do not know anything about Van Gough's case (and after looking it up for a bit, neither does anyone else) that would have changed things. By implying that the actions of others were irrelevant, it excuses the everyday maltreatment of the unhappy.
The show drummed up feelings of sympathy. We have a tendency to think that sympathy is good. It shows understanding and can motivate us to do better. But really, it's our body's way of buying us out of the much more painful and justified feeling of guilt.
Trust me, we don't. You end up blaming yourself forever.
I think the point is that by the time Amy and the Doctor had actually met Vincent, he's been abused far too much, far too often and for far too long for human kindness to save him. It's not easy, because, like Amy, you think you've done a good job and then, well.
I don't know. I'm optimistic. I think you can save people if you try long and hard and let them grow a bit on their own. But sometimes it's hard to escape that void. Overall, the episode seemed, to me, to be very honest. I wouldn't be surprised if Richard Curtis had lost a friend to suicide in the same way.
The trouble comes in generalizing it too much-- because for some people you CAN and DO make a difference. But there will always be those that no matter what you do they will make that choice-- and apparently Vincent in this scenario was one of them. I appreciate Curtis showing that because I've been there and it is so frustrating but its still very accurate. You just have to keep making the choice to care and try to make a difference despite the fact that despite your efforts you could not change the decision of that one person because people always have the right to choose. And that's what the Doctor and Amy are doing now-- continuing on, trying to make a difference despite the fact that they couldn't save Vincent. Because surely somewhere down the road there will be people they CAN save.
Also, FYI? No U in Gogh. Weird, I know. Reminds me of that Achmed the Dead Terrorist sketch. 'How do you spell it?' 'Uh, let's see... A... C... Flem...'
Yes. That is what I think is a highly dangerous message, and one that is fallacious for many cases. In this case, we do not know the reasons for the suicide, but what Amy and the Doctor did wasn't "good," It was absolutely exceptional, and even if Vincent did still eventually decide to kill himself, it wouldn't have come about at the exact same time.
This seems to be contradictory. If you're optimistic and think that people can be saved, then surely you would expect the doctor and Amy to have changed something. The episode seemed to me the same old drivel that gets pumped out about the upset and excuses our maltreatment, while at the same time appearing to be sympathetic on the cover.
I've been watching the old Doctor Who for the first time recently-- watching the seventh doctor at the moment. And at one point he states that he is 953 years old. The sixth doctor also stated several times that he's 900 years old. And I could have sworn I've heard the current doctor say he's 907-- I certainly know I've heard the tenth doctor state numbers in the early 900's. How could he be on a later regeneration but be younger? Did I miss something here? Is this an oversight on the part of the writers? Or is this a clue to something Time War related? Does anyone know? Or just have a really interesting theory?
My solution? He's around 1,100 in Gallifreyan years, and 907 in Earth years.
or the Doctor lied about his age for vanity
The actual Time War hasn't really been fully explained yet, and I'd be surprised if it ever is. But basically, the Daleks and the Time Lords declared war on each other. The resulting conflict has countless 'civilian casualties', and ended in the mutual destruction of both the Daleks and the Time Lords. Or so the Doctor thought...
It's been heavily hinted that it was the Doctor who ended the war by destroying his own race, and in The End of Time, it's revealed why - to avoid letting them end the war with the destruction of reality itself, elevating Time Lord to beings of pure conciousness while letting everything else be completely wiped out.
More information about the Time War can be found on the Wikipedia page.
Thats as good of an explanation as i'll ever need!
Anyway, what were your thoughts on tonights episode? It was okay, especially seeing as it was the low budget,main character lite episode (think Midnight, Love & monsters in previous episodes), anyway the last bit of the next time trailer excited me!
This is my favorite explanation.
And not because I was going to use it myself.
Seriously, I hope he lies about his age on purpose because it would be hilarious, trying to appear a bit younger by shaving off a few hundred years. It would be like the fattest man in the world lying about his weight by saying he only weighed eight hundred pounds.
I found a little more out, though. Check this out, though.
If the de-mat made him forget a few days, a modified de-mat might be able to make him forget a few hundred years? What do you think?
This week's episode was surprisingly enjoyable. Very untypically Who, which has been a theme all series, I guess. Not so much the Doctor-lite episode, but it was companion-lite. You don't miss her though, which is nice.
Next week's ep really does look epic, though! Can't wait to find out what the hell's been going on over the past 10 weeks!
I am loving this Seasons arc
Edit: Sorry, series. I am so used to season, being American and all. This Series has felt like a season of Eureka here. Individual stories, large arc spanning through them
you mean a
I did love this last episode, tho-- hilarious! Now I want wallpaper of the doctor holding an actual screwdriver.
According to
Eddit: Actually, looking at that
Squeee! This makes me happy. Here's crossed fingers for