It's not a derailing, though! Talking about the potential five games and their possibilities is the whole point of the thread! We couldn't be more on-topic if we TRIED.
...that might actually be the truth. It might have been better if we had known about that press event about 20 days later.
But more seriously - why is the general assumption that TTG will make "just" adventure games, forever? Also - there's always the action adventure genre as a next step (I don't consider ATEs to be a next step ). Tales can be told really great through other game types as well, as long as they're still GAMES.
why is the general assumption that TTG will make "just" adventure games, forever?
I'd absolutely love it if Telltale would focus on making brilliant adventure games with quirky difficult puzzles. But that's a small market these days, and it's not the direction they seem to be going in (although we'll see what the announcement brings). I'm just not interested in action hybrids or anything involving timing/reflex/dexterity.
why? A company needs to do what they feel is right to succeed, and they can't keep making the games we like forever there has to be a few, that they learn."Well let's never do that again" Because that kind of thing encourages growth, and with growth sometimes we get better product.
why? A company needs to do what they feel is right to succeed, and they can't keep making the games we like forever there has to be a few, that they learn."Well let's never do that again" Because that kind of thing encourages growth, and with growth sometimes we get better product.
...I'm not sure if this is just an issue with me on this, but I'm not sure what you're saying here.
I think the point was that they can't grow if they continue to "play it safe", sticking to making the same kind of games. However, considering how BttF episode 1 came out, I'm not sure if "playing it safe" is even safe anymore.
I think he's saying that if Telltale doesn't try new things then how are they going to know if it is successful or not. At least if they try and it fails they know not to do it again. As they keep trying new ideas they'll grow into a bigger company able to do more stuff (knowing what they should and shouldn't do in their games) and therefore giving us greater games.
I think the point was that they can't grow if they continue to "play it safe", sticking to making the same kind of games. However, considering how BttF episode 1 came out, I'm not sure if "playing it safe" is even safe anymore.
I think we all know there just aren't a huge number of people who like straight-up adventure games. I love them, and that's why I came to Telltale in the first place. Nothing wrong with the company branching out into other areas - it just means that less of their games will appeal to me personally, and my money will go to other developers accordingly. Best o' luck to them.
It's disappointing for me because it seems like they went after a very classic audience in a very aggressive way, and they ruled that niche for a bit and...I don't know. Got bored with us, or got this idea of Hollywood grandeur or something, I don't know. I came here in the first place because Telltale was making the best-produced straight-up adventure titles of their time, with an excellent fan outreach image and the best customer service I'd ever seen out of any company. So much of that has gone out the window lately that I'm mostly just here as some form of legacy support, which is probably the reason I find myself so irritated with the community as of late. We're not the same sort of people, to the point that what we consider important in games is entirely disparate. If the company's doing well financially, well that's fine for their books and all, but it leaves us with one less company that even cares about the spirit of those old games. I can deal with changes and innovation, I can deal with a stronger narrative focus, and I can deal with different control schemes. But at their core, you know, an adventure game has to immerse you in the world by presenting you with problems that require you to think along that world's lines, that jostle around in your head and force you to put two and two together. If further "adventure-like" titles continue along the path of hint-heavy, simplistic "go here and press A" titles, then I'd honestly rather have them go ahead and stop pretending there's a hint of adventure in there at all.
I think we all know there just aren't a huge number of people who like straight-up adventure games. I love them, and that's why I came to Telltale in the first place. Nothing wrong with the company branching out into other areas - it just means that less of their games will appeal to me personally, and my money will go to other developers accordingly. Best o' luck to them.
I'm pretty sure the adventure genre will not be abandoned by TTG. In fact, with five new projects to be announced, at least three, probably all five will be adventure games; and quite possibly at least one of them will be aimed precisely at the hardcore adventure gamer target group. I'm willing to bet that the concept of at least one of these games will make seasoned adventure gamers drool with anticipation.
After this very reassuring thought, here comes the downside. Every company has to take risks to grow, but with the BTTF and JP licenses, I don't think those would have counted as risks, not ever. Right now, in the BTTF forum, someone has actually asked for a video only version of the BTTF game on the season DVD. The fans of the movies make these franchises a success, NOT the gamers. It's quite irrelevant wether JP will have ATEs, be a shooter or like GTA. It will be successful and that's that.
It's a dangerous path, because, if your games are successful whatever you do, where's the reason to still make them special? And that's what I was after all along - special games, unusual games. Not necessarily the adventure genre; it's just that you can do so much in this genre that other types of games can't. I'd be open for TTG attempts at roleplaying, action-adventure, fun racer games, I'd be open for a lot of "new" paths. As long as they're still GAMES; and ATEs just don't feel like gaming to me, I'm sorry, and the first BTTF episode did not feel like a lot of gaming, also.
So much of that has gone out the window lately that I'm mostly just here as some form of legacy support, which is probably the reason I find myself so irritated with the community as of late. We're not the same sort of people, to the point that what we consider important in games is entirely disparate.
I've only been here for less than two years, and even I feel that way. I still agree with most of the community, I think, but I just don't get many of the new people. It's as if the old buyers have become harsh critics, and a new generation of fanboys have swept in. Don't get me wrong, fanboys are A-OK, and I don't use the word in a diminuitive sense. But it's a tide still, and we can't be sure to what shore it will lead the company.
You can leave out those pseudo apologies like the usual need to growth, the new audiences or more immersive experience blahblah.
It more or less comes down to what you enjoy doing and what you're aiming for.
Are you interested in making adventure games or not? Can you life with producing games for a niche or do you want to play in the Call of Duty league?
Those genre mixes aren't the cure as well because they tend to weaken the depth of each aspect. Can you make money with such games? Yes. Is that what you're looking forward as an point&click adventure fan? Nope.
It's disappointing for me because it seems like they went after a very classic audience in a very aggressive way, and they ruled that niche for a bit and...I don't know. Got bored with us, or got this idea of Hollywood grandeur or something, I don't know. I came here in the first place because Telltale was making the best-produced straight-up adventure titles of their time, with an excellent fan outreach image and the best customer service I'd ever seen out of any company. So much of that has gone out the window lately that I'm mostly just here as some form of legacy support, which is probably the reason I find myself so irritated with the community as of late. We're not the same sort of people, to the point that what we consider important in games is entirely disparate. If the company's doing well financially, well that's fine for their books and all, but it leaves us with one less company that even cares about the spirit of those old games. I can deal with changes and innovation, I can deal with a stronger narrative focus, and I can deal with different control schemes. But at their core, you know, an adventure game has to immerse you in the world by presenting you with problems that require you to think along that world's lines, that jostle around in your head and force you to put two and two together. If further "adventure-like" titles continue along the path of hint-heavy, simplistic "go here and press A" titles, then I'd honestly rather have them go ahead and stop pretending there's a hint of adventure in there at all.
I think somebody in charge needs to read this already.
It's disappointing for me because it seems like they went after a very classic audience in a very aggressive way, and they ruled that niche for a bit and...I don't know. Got bored with us, or got this idea of Hollywood grandeur or something, I don't know. I came here in the first place because Telltale was making the best-produced straight-up adventure titles of their time, with an excellent fan outreach image and the best customer service I'd ever seen out of any company. So much of that has gone out the window lately that I'm mostly just here as some form of legacy support, which is probably the reason I find myself so irritated with the community as of late. We're not the same sort of people, to the point that what we consider important in games is entirely disparate. If the company's doing well financially, well that's fine for their books and all, but it leaves us with one less company that even cares about the spirit of those old games. I can deal with changes and innovation, I can deal with a stronger narrative focus, and I can deal with different control schemes. But at their core, you know, an adventure game has to immerse you in the world by presenting you with problems that require you to think along that world's lines, that jostle around in your head and force you to put two and two together. If further "adventure-like" titles continue along the path of hint-heavy, simplistic "go here and press A" titles, then I'd honestly rather have them go ahead and stop pretending there's a hint of adventure in there at all.
What can I say about this that hasn't already been said? I agree completely.
It's disappointing for me because it seems like they went after a very classic audience in a very aggressive way, and they ruled that niche for a bit and...I don't know. Got bored with us, or got this idea of Hollywood grandeur or something, I don't know. I came here in the first place because Telltale was making the best-produced straight-up adventure titles of their time, with an excellent fan outreach image and the best customer service I'd ever seen out of any company. So much of that has gone out the window lately that I'm mostly just here as some form of legacy support, which is probably the reason I find myself so irritated with the community as of late. We're not the same sort of people, to the point that what we consider important in games is entirely disparate. If the company's doing well financially, well that's fine for their books and all, but it leaves us with one less company that even cares about the spirit of those old games. I can deal with changes and innovation, I can deal with a stronger narrative focus, and I can deal with different control schemes. But at their core, you know, an adventure game has to immerse you in the world by presenting you with problems that require you to think along that world's lines, that jostle around in your head and force you to put two and two together. If further "adventure-like" titles continue along the path of hint-heavy, simplistic "go here and press A" titles, then I'd honestly rather have them go ahead and stop pretending there's a hint of adventure in there at all.
All very good points. I have to say I agree with everything.
However, just to play devil's advocate for a second: It seems the bulk of your complaints are coming from Back to the Future. That's understandable. Telltale's been making their games steadily easier for a while, yes, but they've never had an insulting lack of challenge the same way "It's About Time" did. However, think of it this way. So far we only have one episode to go by. Now, we all knew the BttF license was going to attract new consumers with no prior experience with the adventure genre before, and we knew things were going to get compromised. Would you be willing to admit it's at least possible that the whole first episode was...an extended tutorial for the newcomers, if you will? I'm not saying that's necessarily the case, but remember that The Penal Zone was incredibly easy too, but the rest of TDP was an improvement. I would wait until Get Tannen comes out before we cast any lasting judgment on BttF.
But yes, hopefully Telltale hasn't forgotten about the real adventure fans. I guess we'll find out in a week. Cross your fingers.
Soooo, does anyone else think there may be a new Poker Night game? I sure hope so. It'd sure get the wiki going again.
I'm not sure how likely it is, but I'd definitely like to see more of The Inventory.
Incidentally, Guybrush, have you considered maybe extending the Wiki into a general "Telltale Games Wiki"? We could have articles for every game, characters, responses, walkthroughs, maybe guides on how to get all the achievements/trophies.
I'm not sure how likely it is, but I'd definitely like to see more of The Inventory.
Incidentally, Guybrush, have you considered maybe extending the Wiki into a general "Telltale Games Wiki"? We could have articles for every game, characters, responses, walkthroughs, maybe guides on how to get all the achievements/trophies.
Just a though.
That is an idea but I'll have to A. wait till I got the time to spend on it. B. Check that such a thing doesn't already exist.
So much of that has gone out the window lately that I'm mostly just here as some form of troll, which is probably the reason I am so irritating to the community as of late.
All very good points. I have to say I agree with everything.
However, just to play devil's advocate for a second: It seems the bulk of your complaints are coming from Back to the Future.
If I may...
I can't speak for Dashing of course, but I think he agrees that it's been a problem since Tales, that gradually got worse. Now, looking back, Tales isn't that bad in comparison: Playhouse was worse and BttF is looking like it's even worse.
Right now, I think a lot of people are tired because it's looking like it's a direction they took on purpose and they're happy with, since they keep doing it and going further with it. Sure, future projects might prove to be different, but right now they have the seasons being less and less game, more and more movie, and small games every so often (Puzzle Agent, Poker Night) which are nice and really good but seem to be a minority of the projects rather than the main ones.
So I don't think you're being fair by saying he only has had an episode to judge, I'm fairly sure he is talking about the last few projects, the last few years, and not just BttF taken on its own.
"The last few years" - I could interpret them as a gradual decline, but I don't think that would be entirely fair. To put it out there: I liked S&M season three, and my complaints of both The Devil's playhouse and Tales of Monkey Island pretty much focused on their last episodes (and endings). Both fit into the "a little more puzzles wouldn't have hurt" category, but thinking back, I loved how Lair of the Leviathan played (the dialogue-based puzzles, the fleshing out of Morgan's character, the brilliant and creative allusions to insult swordfighting) and I got far, far more than my money's worth for the Tomb of Sammun-Mak with its really creative twisted storyline/puzzle approach. Thinking even further back, S&M season 2 found its enthusiasm spike in the last two episodes, and the beginning eps felt rather empty, and I still think this was the best season ever. Ups and downs all over the place.
Essentially, for me subjectively, it really WAS the first BTTF episode to trigger the WTF experience. Yes, some former episodes of S&M and Tales lacked puzzles in favour of storyline, so the problem was always there to be improved. The "Penal Zone" was full to the brim with needlessly stretched-out tutorials, which was ennerving, but I still like to play the episode, because its faults felt involuntary. With the first episode of BTTF however, the puzzle lack felt far more calculated to me for the first time, it felt like a direction.
I still have high hopes for those new franchises, I look towards Jurassic Park with some hope left, and I even think that BTTF might have its puzzle spike, its moment of creative grandeur mid-season. But if TTG tries to get as many people as humanly possible into their boat by just making it bigger and more mass-appealing, that thing is going to capsize (second maritime / piratey methaphor in two posts, sorry about that).
"In addition to the Jurassic Park game, Telltale will reveal 5 major new multi-platform projects, including one based on a just-launched property from the TV and comic book world whose popularity is changing life as some know it."
I guess it doesnt fit this description perfectly, but does anyone else hope that one of the new games will be based on the TV Show Jericho.
Comments
So the entire game would be "Use gun with 'X'"?
You seem to think duke nukem is somehow unsophisticated? There's a whole world of item-based strategical manouvres.
Warcraft is a strategy series. You can't make an MMO out of that.
Indiana Jones is an action series. How can you make an adventure out of that?
Dune is an Adventure title. You can't make the sequel an RTS.
etc etc.
Besides, it's not like Duke Nukem hasn't made a genre shift before.
Besides, you said you stand by the joke based on what you seem to think is logic, when...well, there's no logic to be had here.
...that might actually be the truth. It might have been better if we had known about that press event about 20 days later.
But more seriously - why is the general assumption that TTG will make "just" adventure games, forever? Also - there's always the action adventure genre as a next step (I don't consider ATEs to be a next step
Because the alternative is the unknown and the unknown is scary.
I'd absolutely love it if Telltale would focus on making brilliant adventure games with quirky difficult puzzles. But that's a small market these days, and it's not the direction they seem to be going in (although we'll see what the announcement brings). I'm just not interested in action hybrids or anything involving timing/reflex/dexterity.
why? A company needs to do what they feel is right to succeed, and they can't keep making the games we like forever there has to be a few, that they learn."Well let's never do that again" Because that kind of thing encourages growth, and with growth sometimes we get better product.
Edit: Ninja'd.
Bingo.
I suddenly have a tiny bit of interest in this game.
Out of context wise this would make an interesting Telltale game.
Oh god, they'll anounce five Heavy Rain clones, and I will never speak about TTG ever again...
I'm pretty sure the adventure genre will not be abandoned by TTG. In fact, with five new projects to be announced, at least three, probably all five will be adventure games; and quite possibly at least one of them will be aimed precisely at the hardcore adventure gamer target group. I'm willing to bet that the concept of at least one of these games will make seasoned adventure gamers drool with anticipation.
After this very reassuring thought, here comes the downside. Every company has to take risks to grow, but with the BTTF and JP licenses, I don't think those would have counted as risks, not ever. Right now, in the BTTF forum, someone has actually asked for a video only version of the BTTF game on the season DVD. The fans of the movies make these franchises a success, NOT the gamers. It's quite irrelevant wether JP will have ATEs, be a shooter or like GTA. It will be successful and that's that.
It's a dangerous path, because, if your games are successful whatever you do, where's the reason to still make them special? And that's what I was after all along - special games, unusual games. Not necessarily the adventure genre; it's just that you can do so much in this genre that other types of games can't. I'd be open for TTG attempts at roleplaying, action-adventure, fun racer games, I'd be open for a lot of "new" paths. As long as they're still GAMES; and ATEs just don't feel like gaming to me, I'm sorry, and the first BTTF episode did not feel like a lot of gaming, also.
I've only been here for less than two years, and even I feel that way. I still agree with most of the community, I think, but I just don't get many of the new people. It's as if the old buyers have become harsh critics, and a new generation of fanboys have swept in. Don't get me wrong, fanboys are A-OK, and I don't use the word in a diminuitive sense. But it's a tide still, and we can't be sure to what shore it will lead the company.
It more or less comes down to what you enjoy doing and what you're aiming for.
Are you interested in making adventure games or not? Can you life with producing games for a niche or do you want to play in the Call of Duty league?
Those genre mixes aren't the cure as well because they tend to weaken the depth of each aspect. Can you make money with such games? Yes. Is that what you're looking forward as an point&click adventure fan? Nope.
I think somebody in charge needs to read this already.
What can I say about this that hasn't already been said? I agree completely.
All very good points. I have to say I agree with everything.
However, just to play devil's advocate for a second: It seems the bulk of your complaints are coming from Back to the Future. That's understandable. Telltale's been making their games steadily easier for a while, yes, but they've never had an insulting lack of challenge the same way "It's About Time" did. However, think of it this way. So far we only have one episode to go by. Now, we all knew the BttF license was going to attract new consumers with no prior experience with the adventure genre before, and we knew things were going to get compromised. Would you be willing to admit it's at least possible that the whole first episode was...an extended tutorial for the newcomers, if you will? I'm not saying that's necessarily the case, but remember that The Penal Zone was incredibly easy too, but the rest of TDP was an improvement. I would wait until Get Tannen comes out before we cast any lasting judgment on BttF.
But yes, hopefully Telltale hasn't forgotten about the real adventure fans. I guess we'll find out in a week. Cross your fingers.
I'm not sure how likely it is, but I'd definitely like to see more of The Inventory.
Incidentally, Guybrush, have you considered maybe extending the Wiki into a general "Telltale Games Wiki"? We could have articles for every game, characters, responses, walkthroughs, maybe guides on how to get all the achievements/trophies.
Just a though.
That is an idea but I'll have to A. wait till I got the time to spend on it. B. Check that such a thing doesn't already exist.
Fixed.
If I may...
I can't speak for Dashing of course, but I think he agrees that it's been a problem since Tales, that gradually got worse. Now, looking back, Tales isn't that bad in comparison: Playhouse was worse and BttF is looking like it's even worse.
Right now, I think a lot of people are tired because it's looking like it's a direction they took on purpose and they're happy with, since they keep doing it and going further with it. Sure, future projects might prove to be different, but right now they have the seasons being less and less game, more and more movie, and small games every so often (Puzzle Agent, Poker Night) which are nice and really good but seem to be a minority of the projects rather than the main ones.
So I don't think you're being fair by saying he only has had an episode to judge, I'm fairly sure he is talking about the last few projects, the last few years, and not just BttF taken on its own.
Essentially, for me subjectively, it really WAS the first BTTF episode to trigger the WTF experience. Yes, some former episodes of S&M and Tales lacked puzzles in favour of storyline, so the problem was always there to be improved. The "Penal Zone" was full to the brim with needlessly stretched-out tutorials, which was ennerving, but I still like to play the episode, because its faults felt involuntary. With the first episode of BTTF however, the puzzle lack felt far more calculated to me for the first time, it felt like a direction.
I still have high hopes for those new franchises, I look towards Jurassic Park with some hope left, and I even think that BTTF might have its puzzle spike, its moment of creative grandeur mid-season. But if TTG tries to get as many people as humanly possible into their boat by just making it bigger and more mass-appealing, that thing is going to capsize (second maritime / piratey methaphor in two posts, sorry about that).
I guess it doesnt fit this description perfectly, but does anyone else hope that one of the new games will be based on the TV Show Jericho.
Fixed that for you.